Disgusting, absolutely disgusting. This was a dumb change... As someone who has done Torghast on the Alpha, I can say for a fact this is a bad and dumb idea...Really disappointed in Blizzard given all the feedback given AGAINST the idea of a timer. This is really disappointing just reading how it works. There is a lot of exploration factor to Torghast, things like breaking urns in nooks and crannies etc. Throwing a time, in any capacity, on this just forces players to rush to the end instead of actually exploring the floors fully.Its amazing how horribly poor a decision this is.Oh, and for everyone saying "This is an Alpha" get the heck out of here with that. It does not matter if its an alpha or not if Blizzard actively chooses to ignore feedback. This is Blizzard's problem. Everyone wants to blame BFA's failures on the Alpha testing not being good enough, not getting Azerite soon enough, etc. That is only half the story, the other half is Blizzard continues to show they are too prideful to actually take feedback when they get it into their heads that they know what is best. People pointed out the issues in BFA very early on in Alpha even before getting their hands on features and it all went live as if the feedback was entirely ignored.Battle for Azeroth should have been a humbling learning experience but given how actions like this are still being taken, even with people being very vocal they don't want a timer, just continues to show that the Dev team is its worst enemy. They are too prideful for the good of the game. Torghast on the Alpha was one of the best experiences I have encountered in WoW in a LONG time. I absolutely loved what I had played of Torghast in the Alpha and these changes sound god awful.Not every piece of content should just have a freaking timer tacked onto it! It works for M+, stop slapping it onto everything and calling it a day. Yeah, you can decorate it however you want (in this case under the guise of stacking debuffs) but a timer is a timer is a timer. This will greatly reduce the quality of experience and is beyond stupid. If a player wants to spend 4 hours in a single Torghast, let them! That is their choice. Those people waiting for Lust between every pull are not going to be the average player. Torghasts "gate" should be the floors getting so hard that you just can't continue anymore. Slapping these debuffs on is not bringing anything good or exciting to Torghast, its just going to cheapen the experience.
Timer? I dont care soft of hard. It is already dead for me.
Wow, it's like people didn't read about the safe areas on the FLOOR where they can afk whenever and that it resets to 0 every new floor and how the timers don't even start til floor 10!This is leaning towards a combo of binding of isaac with a bit of pokemon mystery dungeon, which I bet people didn't know, floors had a soft timer which would eject you from a dungeon if you spent too long on a floor. Any floor. And tbh i think it's gonna be fun
I don't like the addition of a soft timer, hopefully this isn't permanent.
The pressure of timers ruins my fun.Have they learned nothing of what made classic fun?
I’ll be honest, after looking at what ] in Alpha…these seem pretty reasonable. You basically become really REALLY crazy the further you go and the more Anima powers you acquire. ANd with many streams/gameplays I’ve seen, it seems that around the time you get to the boss, they aren’t really that challenging anymore, which defeats the whole point of the mode. So with this debuff, it adds some more challenge to it. and it resets after every boss (every 6 levels or so) So that seems pretty decent. Let’s say you get to the boss floor.The first minute you go inside, you speak to the Broker dude and get more anima powers and some other minor bonuses. No stacks.First minute fighting the boss, you’re going to inevitably do a crap ton of damage because you have popped cooldowns. 6 percent debuff during this time, not to mention you probably have a lot of sustain type powers along with the offensive powers.second minute against the boss, 12% damage taken debuff. You’re on the ropes but the boss is probably around <60% health by the time you main cooldowns (not to mention the possibility of things akin to 2 minute bloodlust along with Ascension, not even being factored in) You’re be am bit more careful now, I’d bet. But you are still doing MAD DAMAGE to the boss.-Minute 3. Honestly, I’m doubtful you’ll even get to the 3 minute mark with bosses. But maybe you had less damaging traits and more sustain traits (which… are still helpful. You get to choose between making a burst down build OR a sustain, wait it out type build because you’re a bit more confident even with the debuff about keeping yourself healthy.) by this time you’re probably gonna kill the boss very very soon, so the debuff nearly doesn’t even matter any more.Then you reset your stacks and get a new debuff and an EPIC anima power presumably, to continue on your run. The big challenges are going to be on the boss rooms, like they should. Honestly, not seeing something too horrible here. Also, it is still alpha and if they continue doing what they have been doing this alpha cycle, we will see more tuning. ALso in beta, as inevitably, this is where more number tuning comes in. Persoanally seeing nothing horrible.Honestly, I think these are pretty good. It keeps the challenge going.pI feel that the title of "Incentivises speed" is a little wrong. They are not asking you to speedrun them like horrific visions. They are telling you "Stay in this level as long as you want but the longer you stay, the harder it'll be so choose what you'll do wisely."It's not a hard timer that kicks you out, its more so an incentive to stop people from a AFKing for cooldowns as well as to keep each floor somewhat challenging.
So instead of doing like some people in this post and latching onto the word "timer" and having an aneurysm typing up stupid stuff because I don't like to actually read, I'm actually going to comment on each one and say my opinions instead of going all "OOK OOK" in the comments because "Timer" scary word.
Certain specs will likely end up getting a buff like they currently do in visions.
I get the feeling this Wowhead author made some very key errors in what they wrote, especially based on the part of that Q&A Twitch video that talks about this. I sincerely doubt that the base effect increases for each floor per 6-floor group in addition to the periodic stacking. That would make most of these more than a little ridiculous at higher floors, obviously, because the enemies themselves already get harder each floor. To me, it simply sounds like any given Torment is permanently active only within each 6-floor group while outside a rest zone and is removed with the boss's death, and that's it.I don't know why such confusing and possibly incorrect wording was used here. Please double-check what is in posts like these, particularly when it's about apparently sensitive info. People take this stuff seriously, even when they shouldn't yet. If I'm wrong and the article is 100% right, then I'm totally fine with that and I apologize, but stuff like saying "it's theorized" and linking Metal Spike doesn't inspire confidence.Then again, even if I am right, I get the feeling people would still rage about having to actually play in a gameplay area that can be tuned however needed. As for a couple key concerns: You have Floors 1-10 for the feeling of exploration, which I agree IS important for a time. I think that if you're going to high floors, you'll soon stop caring so much about exploration of rather samey floors because of the roguelike nature and care more about the challenge. If very high floors actually take several hours in alpha and are supposed to be completable, then I very much doubt they will take that long on release.Anyway, I fully agree with ChunkyCoffee about everything, right down to Soulforge Heat. Even if it IS only stacking within a 6-floor group like I said before, it still doesn't seem right to me. However, you could reasonably argue that losing health periodically is technically the same overall as taking additional damage if you added up all that additional damage taken. In that case, it's just about getting the amount and tick period right on Soulforge Heat, and it really should only happen in combat. At the very least, if no other changes are made to it, its stack timer should be at least 4x longer than its damage timer, meaning every 20 seconds the damage would go up by 1% health but damage would still be dealt every 5 seconds or perhaps that should be every 10 seconds.Lastly, I haven't played Shadowlands Alpha, so maybe I don't really know what I'm talking about. :P But I do know to not take things too literally in posts like these. I have a good bit of experience having played WoW 2005-2014+a tiny bit in 2016 and soloing FFXIV's Deep Dungeons to semi-serious floors. Torghast is a direct copy of Deep Dungeons, but that's not a bad thing at all! Torghast actually makes FFXIV's Deep Dungeons look like the cheap copy, which makes total sense given the different priorities in each game's general design.
That'll be a yikes from me. No timers is the main selling point of Torghast for me. If Blizz is worried about people cheesing difficulty by waiting for cooldown timers then increase complexity of mob abilities and introduce more difficulty that is not based around throughput -- be that damage or healing. Timers is the cheapest and easiest way to add difficulty.
