As the GM of a part-time mythic guild, I'm a huge fan of the loot system as it stands in BFA. It's one less thing to manage. We just tell folks to use common courtesy with pieces they don't need. The one and only place where it doesn't feel great is with mail-wearers. There are fewer of them in most raids, so they get less trickle-down gear than most other armor classes... certainly more than leather-wearers. I've had raiders want to main swap from shaman and hunter b/c they didn't like the pace at which they were gearing up compared to our 10,000 (give or take) druids and DHs.
ML should still be an option. And if not, then yes remove the ilvl requirements and make all drops trade able. It's really that simple.If the guilds are more casual, then none of this is an issue. For guilds that what to progress through the most difficult content in the game, the current loot system is a hindrance in every regard.The Author talks about cons of the personal loot system being a player that prepares well for the raid having to give the gear to someone that didn't put the effort. (1) Why does that matter? If it's not an upgrade and its trade-able then I want to give it to someone else anyway. AND (2) to be perfectly honest, if a person puts zero effort towards preparing for a raid, they shouldn't be coming to the raid. These are both issues with a persons Character and reliability, not relevant to the loot system whatsoever. I just don't want this particular point to affect the conversation. The bottom line is that mandatory personal loot Only benefits those that were already using it, and only hurts guilds that use ML responsibly.
I really enjoy PL as it is now also with this kind of trading restriction. The little drawback of not being able to trade something that i dont need in certain cases is pretty acceptable for me. Overall we are prevented from being scammed or forced to trade items this way. I also believe that in many cases ppl just dont want to trade for whatever reason (which is there good right) and are giving the "i cant trade" excuse. Anyway, changing the loot system to PL was extremely healthy for the game and the community. In a raid environment for examble you are not rivaling against each other anymore, in terms of loot!I can totally see the issue for high-end progress guilds but they shouldnt be the benchmark by any means! Personally i dont want ML to return.
Ran into the issue of not being able to trade a trinket, simply because the one 475 I had had been equipped but not MOVED to the other trinket slot (which is really really silly imo). So just wondering, is there a macro that can be run to see highest ilvl that's been equipped for every slot?
Even though I'm late to the party, here's my suggestion:Keep Personal Loot...However, make it so in the first two week of the Mythic Raid availability you can trade any gear that is 30 item levels higher than your currently equipped. Then, every two weeks (or so) the item level difference that you can trade degrades by 5 item levels all the way to the cap of 15 item levels. For example: in the first two weeks if a 475 item drops and you have a 445 item equipped, you can trade (30 item level gap). At week 7, if a 475 drops and you have a 455 equipped, you cannot trade it anymore (15 item level gap.)My reasoning:When a new raid drops, Mythic level gear from the previous raid is now the same item level as the new raid's Normal setting. The item level difference from Mythic to Normal is 30 item levels. This way, hardcore Hall of Fame and World First guilds will no longer be forced to level every profession they can to equip item level appropriate items. Semi-Hardcore guilds will no longer be forced to do Heroic Split runs if they don't have to, but everyone else who didn't do Mythic on the previous tier won't be able to simply avoid the restrictions of Personal Loot when walking into the new Mythic Raid. The deterioration of the item level gap every two weeks is primarily to benefit the guilds who felt the biggest loss with the removal of Master Loot, and these guilds are generally the semi-hardcore to hardcore raiding guilds which most of the player base is not. These guilds put in effort to earn Hall of Fame, World First, and Server first, so they should at least be given the flexibility to trade loot while at the same time the rest of the player base is not plagued by unfair loot trading rules in guilds that don't prioritize competitive play. If your guild can only down 3-4 mythic bosses before the 15 item level gap cap is reached, then so be it. The item level gap as well as the degradation interval are just place holders for now as I am unsure which level or time is appropriate, but this method seems fair. The other option would be to have 15 item levels as the gap at the start, and to degrade down to same item level as it stands now as to prioritize heroic split runs but to remove the professions grinding.
Removed
Right now, Shadowlands is an expansion I probably won't play at launch. I'm okay with the lack of Master Loot, but the loot reduction just seems stingy, who knows, but right now I think I'll let it run a few months, I could see a lot of changes being made that they're too stubborn to do right now.
Personally, I'm glad to see ML gone. I feel like it was overall a good system, but there were far too many people that were making life hell with it. Among some of the things I saw under ML:- A group with only a trial Hunter sharding a bow rather than giving it to the Hunter. Reason: "Trials don't get loot the first two weeks."- A PUG group demanding I join their guild so that they can hit 16 people and have ML available- Constant filtering of loot to friends. Especially in Loot Council guilds and DKP-style guilds where the numbers would just always favor a few people.- People swapping out loot for lower pieces so when the loot master was looking at upgrades, they looked like they needed it more.- Constant armor drops for classes not even in the raid group.Personal loot definitely has issues, but it is nice that the system is not nearly as easy to abuse. I feel the author's suggestion would lead to many abuses returning. If all loot can be traded, it stands to reason that the loot master could easily demand all loot is traded to them, then they get to decide who really gets it. Or it could lead to guild loot bullying, at least moreso than I've seen with PL (though some definitely is there).In truth, there is no great system here. Any leeway towards an ML system or relaxing loot trading rules will lead back to ML-style looting. But I think you also have to acknowledge the player base you have in WoW will constantly try to push the envelope wherever they can to lead back to something where a loot master can control the flow of loot in any way possible.One possible solution I could see here is perhaps using a currency system like VP or Titan Residuum to buy items. Perhaps when you kill a boss once a week and loot doesn't drop, you get some currency you could use to buy certain raid items from a vendor. But you could also use that currency to "buy" an item off a fellow raider at perhaps half the cost or something. Then the person giving up the loot gets something, but loot could then be in a way tradeable. And that would also help people to fill in some of their gear gaps.
i would love the option for lagacy loot from the start roll greed/need like the good ol days
How about we bring back ML and when you enter with a raidgroup every participant casts a vote for the loot distribution model. More people vote for PL, PL it is. If people for ML thats what they get. Blizzard gets actual info about those decisions and You get to do whatever the majority decides (and people will advertise their groups as such when they are creating them ). You cant get scammed into ML since everyone in the group will choose PL, and all the guild that want ML can actually use it properly. Just quickly going to debunk the "My GM/Guild forced me to pick this loot option" If you are being bullied into a making a decision/conforming to anything do yourself a favor and leave that guild since my guess is loot is not gonna be the only issue. PL has not saved any toxic guilds and lets not pretend that it has.
I like the idea of keeping the personal loot, but removing the limitations for trading. This way none can be scammed by RL but at the same time people who want to share the loot in the raid will be allowed to.
I want it back. Personal loot has its place and I absolutely think it needs to be the default in LFG and in pugs, but any group that's made up of enough guildmates to get guild achievements should be able to use ML. Divvying up loot takes us SO long and requires SO much additional effort with personal loot, because it's not like my guild (or most others who raid around my guild's level) has given up the idea of trying to redistribute gear.If personal loot HAS to stay and HAS to be the only dog in town, I want an additional loot specialization option for transmog that removes non-moggable pieces from the loot table, combines all available specializations, AND adds any pieces that your character can equip but which aren't designed for any of your specializations—using a hunter as an example (because tee hee, it's a hunter weapon?), this hypothetical loot spec would allow a boss that dropped them to drop bows (normally on the BM/MM tables), polearms (on the SV table), a dagger (not on any of the three tables but equippable by hunters), and the set of mail shoulders (on all three tables). I wouldn't mind any loot received when in this specialization to not be tradeable at all, or even to only give the appearance and not the actual item (though I'd be annoyed at the lack of vendor gold/disenchanting mats) but I can see just as many problems with people "abusing" that as people who "abused" master loot (and people who "abuse" personal loot now—I don't loot bosses with things I want on them in pugs because I don't want to deal with the flood of whispers asking me to trade something I want to them just because my ilvl is higher).I'm honestly just tired of having killed mythic Jaina something like thirty times and having only had the agility sword drop twice, because we only have one character in our carry group who's eligible to even have the stupid thing drop, and that one character isn't me so I can't even use my seals to get an extra chance at it because it's not on my loot table. So many seals wasted because all the loot I want to use them for are gated behind certain weapons being primary stat-specific...