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40551의 댓글

Okay, so, this talent boosts the damage of Ferocious Bite by 15% and the AP reduction from Demoralizing Roar by 40%.

Let's talk about Ferocious Bite in general first.

To to put it simply, Rip is better than Ferocious Bite. Ferocious Bite is mitigated by armor, yet Rip completely ignores armor. Ferocious Bite drains ALL of your energy for a very slight boost to damage. Rip does not, and still does full damage. Rip obviously cannot crit, but you'll find that, especially with the Mangle debuff active (+30% bleed damage), Rip will do more than a non-critting Ferocious Bite. Yes, if Bite crits, it's better. But you can't rely on crits, and it's not wise to throw away all of your energy at once (unless you have exactly the amount of energy Bite requires).

In PvE, you should never use Bite unless the mob is immune to bleeds (almost all Feral Druids concur on this). In PvP, Bite has some uses. I would then consider this talent to be a strictly PvP talent. However, there are much, much better places you could put 5 talent points, so it's a poor one anyway.

Speaking of PvP, remember that there are only two classes (Paladin via Divine Shield, or any Mage via Ice Block) and one race (Dwarf via Stoneform) that can remove bleed effects (all of the abilities I mentioned have cooldowns of 3 minutes or more). There are ever so many ways to avoid straight-up physical damage.

So, going by all of that, it's not even wise to use Ferocious Bite as it is. Why would you want to boost an ability you're almost never using?

Okay, now to (briefly) talk about the bonus to Demoralizing Roar. While this is ever so slightly useful in some situations (most notably tanking), it is far less useful than many other talents that you could get and generally makes almost no difference.

The fact that these two bonuses are together in one talent makes it a bit more tempting, but I suggest most strongly that you do not even put a single point in this talent.

If you want more damage, head to the Restoration tree. Get Furor (Imp. MotW is a bad talent for any Druid, unless they never use their feral forms), Naturalist, and Omen of Clarity. Naturalist gives you a flat 10% boost to ALL physical damage, not just one ability, and even gives a nice buff to your Healing Touch. Omen of Clarity lets you use a free ability every so often. Imagine an energy-free Mangle or Shred a few times a minute. If Clearcasting from Omen of Clarity procs while you're in a form, you can even shift out and cast a heal for free. It's a great Feral talent that just happens to be in another tree.

If you want more survivability, get Thick Hide and Survival of the Fittest (any serious tank should have both of these). Feral Swiftness, especially, and even Predatory Instincts also help.

Basically, don't get this talent. I've used it before to try it for myself, and I can say firsthand that it is indeed quite lackluster.

Sorry for being long-winded. Hope you found this useful!

Greyson의 댓글

This talent has a very different flavor than it's counterpart, Ferocity. A fully talented version will increase the power of this debuff by 96 AP. When I'm in bear form, I'm usually grouped, and my tanking ability is more important than anything else - although the extra damage from Ferocity is nice, anyone in my group can do that. If I'm tanking two or more mobs, I get more out of this talent than the rage reduction from my Swipes. In fact, when tanking, I have no problem getting rage.

Now in cat form, that's a different story. If you're serious about cat form damage, I'd suggest you Ferocity instead; as the previous poster mentioned, Ferocious Bite has a lot of limitations except when fighting mobs that are immune to bleed effects or for a quick shot on a runner. Even then, if you have shredding attacks, you'll probably want to use that instead.

63805의 댓글

I'm levelling a druid and doing mostly soloing / duoing. When I duo I am playing with priest. Wondering can anyone confirm does this talent affect for threat generation, i.e. will a druid generate more threat for a group of mobs with this talent?

For low levels Demolarization roar is only skill which can be used as "AoE taunt" besides swipe. Though swipe have limit that it hits only for 3 mobs. A side note for comments above, I have got both talents, 5/5 feral aggression and 5/5 ferocity since nothing prevents that. :)

64464의 댓글

Specing this talent will not increase the agro from demoralizing roar, it will only increase the attack power reduction.

162742의 댓글

I believe Brighid did a great job in describing how much this talents absolutely sucks, and I'm going to post more on why Demoralizing Roar is a sub-par ability. A Druid's Demoralizing Roar, a Warrior's Demoralizing Shout, and a Warlock's Curse of Weakness cannot be stacked with each other. Let's take a look at each of them.

Demoralizing Roar (Rank 6): 240 AP reduction untalented, 336 AP reduction talented. 30 sec duration.

Demoralizing Shout (Rank 7): 300 AP reduction untalented, 420 AP reduction talented. 30 sec duration.

Curse of Weakness (Rank 8): 350 AP reduction untalented, 420 AP reduction talented. 2 min duration.

Demoralizing Roar untalented has the lowest AP reduction of all three abilities, and it has the same duration as Demoralizing Shout. Demoralizing Shout has more AP reduction than Demoralizing Roar untalented, and is tied with Curse of Weakness for the highest AP reduction. Curse of Weakness has the most AP reduction untalented, and it even beats out a talented Demoralizing Roar in both AP reduction and duration. It has a longer duration than both Demoralizing Roar and Demoralizing Shout, so a talented Curse of Weakness is generally the best AP reduction hands down. Demoralizing Roar just SUCKS in a group, and the moral of the story is, if you have a warrior or warlock in the group, have them use their AP reduction abilities, or use this just for the aggro if you're the MT. The threat on Demoralizing Roar is not increased by this talent. If you want more threat, get 3/3 Feral Instinct.

Don't ever get this talent. Period. It just plain sucks.

31067의 댓글

with the new +50% crit chance on bleeding targets gained from the Rend and Tear talent, this talent finds itself somewhat usefull

an extra 50% crit, on bleeding targets (use rake, pounce, lacerate) - combined with what must be assumed to be a healthy normal crit% for a druid (lets say 25% minimum) means a garanteed crit in most cases

15% more base dmg, for a garanteed crit? sure - i'd like that

170073의 댓글

In PvE this wont have THAT much of a use, in PvP this can realy help from my point of view. In PvP burst damage is crucial and ice block or bubble etc damage reduce abilities are hard to time to block an instant large damage move although when rip is applied they can instantly bubble or ice block to avoid all the damage.

I Prefer to use Ferocious Bite with full energy and if Omen of Clarity has proced it will make that 100 energy to alot more damage. True against plate users like DK, Pally and warrior not so wise to use but clothies are usualy in big trouble after this move.

324030의 댓글

good damage if you crit, but in the 25% chance that you don't crit, or in a situation where your crit doesn't finish off what you're attacking, you're at 0 energy, or at least not enough energy to do any further attacks for a few moments. Normally if I'm fighting just 1 thing where I can afford to waste all of my energy it's a boss with more HP than I can take out with one cycle of rake mangle (etc) bite (hoping for crit). I haven't done the numbers but I assume the total dps of rip then re-cycling rake, mangle (etc) would be higher because you've got more energy to use for fighting then dumping it all into one attack.

And for me ever since getting Maim, I'm loving the stun effect of this finishing move! I haven't touched ferocious bite in a loooooong time... With the free re-specs going around with this latest patch I've been reconsidering everything and still don't like ferocious bite. :)

eromrab의 댓글

Has this improved any with all the new patches?

463824의 댓글

Demoralizing roar is a luxury if anything. Attack power reduction increase by the talent is a very small difference in damage. While that may make a small difference in a tight situation, the fact of the matter is that the attack power reduction is still hardly noticeable. Especially noting wowelderscroll's explanation of how every other reduction ability is better. So for tanking, this is merely a perk, not worth -5- talent points.

As for cat dps, I've tinkered with it. Ferocious bite is a 'finishing' move, if anything, used to finish off the mob. The increased damage from this talent is noticeable while questing, but ferocious bite is absolutely only useful in instances and raids against trash mobs close to death, and you just need to get rid of your combo points quickly. Even with omen of clarity on, it still drains your energy almost to nothing and makes it useless. And now that rip DOES crit (while talented) it makes ferocious bite even less of a choice for any cat dps. I don't even keep it on my action bar anymore.

specterk의 댓글

I see plenty of other ferals who max this talent and don't understand why I ask them to respec before allowing them a spot in my raids, and not everybody is interested in game mechanics enough to check EJ, so I feel compelled to post something here to enlighten folks.

There really is no good reason to take this talent except as part of a hybrid pvp build... maybe. I say maybe because Bite in pvp is only something you'll be using frequently when you're Berserking and energy isn't an issue, or just to show off if you've already won - and a deep feral build isn't exactly a strong core for any experimental pvp build these days.

A raid tank doesn't have the extra talent points to spare (and as others have pointed out, a non-stacking talented debuff of equal or greater effect will always be up due to some other member of the raid anyway). Even if the talent points were available, the survivability gain is less than any other decent filler option.

A raid dps build also doesn't have the extra talent points to spare until very high gear levels which are unachievable by a vast majority - and in this case as well, there are easily better places to invest 2 talent points for both solo and raid utility.

I think the confusion stems from a lack of understanding of good feral dps etiquette.
In groups, you will only use FB to blow extra energy when you get ahead of your rotation (a very small portion of your dps), or on trash, which is insignificant. This talent provides the least raid dps gain per talent point among the cat dps options.

Ferocious Bite is superior to Rip for any single-target non-elite encounter (i.e. solo grinding), assuming you're semi-decently geared for your level -- and frankly just doesn't need a damage boost. Conceivably, this could help to serve as a small buffer against gear atrophy while leveling... but it's really still unnecessary. As an example: while leveling my second druid to 80 this month--I use this example because non-raid mob health scales less efficiently than our atp at level 80 than in the levels prior, thus this is the worst-case scenario--there were few (if any) situations where a 4 or 5-pt FB failed to finish a target after a pounce/mangle/shred/(shred)... even against heavy-armor mobs 2 or more levels higher than me. Frequently, mobs die even sooner, and any finisher other than Savage Roar (once you get it) would be wasted.

For those others of you who've already leveled a Feral or two to 80, consider how often you actually use Rake vs. a single mob... never (unless you're letting your gear fall *really* far behind your leveling, or you blew your opener somehow). Also consider that you can often take out even a non-cloth mob with a Ravage/Rake/Mangle/Bite (generally the least efficient combo available) with a string of crits - which happens frequently.

This talent's only real theoretical benefit in pve should be to make leveling more efficient - but feral efficiency is already maxed. You'll see bigger crits with this talent, of course, but the damage will mostly all be wasted unless you're doing something wrong and wasting energy to match. Remember: "OVER-efficiency" is actually worse than an equal amount of "UNDER-efficiency."

Even before Rend and Tear gave such a huge boost to FB, it was more than powerful enough to frequently waste dps even when used carefully.

Summary: for pve, don't take this. You'll never need it.
For pvp, eh... restos/boomkin aren't known for their huge FBs, and ferals have more pressing talent point needs. This is one of the plethora of basically useless filler talents like a mage's Frost Warding/Arcane Fortitude, a lock's Improved Succubus, etc. which the devs like to chalk up to "variety." Sadly, there really are definitely right and wrong ways to play, and this talent figures into the latter.

622660의 댓글

By specterk on 05/28/2010 (Patch 3.3.3)

A raid tank doesn't have the extra talent points to spare (and as others have pointed out, a non-stacking talented debuff of equal or greater effect will always be up due to some other member of the raid anyway). Even if the talent points were available, the survivability gain is less than any other decent filler option.

Absolutely untrue in every respect. It can be argued that Feral Tanks have the most flexibility in reallocating talent points to accommodate Feral Aggression and the talented AP reduction: the vast majority of Warrior Tanks adhere to the Deep Wounds Prot build and so are unable to allocate points whatsoever in Improved Demoralizing Shout, there are no commonly used Warlock builds that include Improved Curse of Weakness and the Acid Spit (which provides an identical AP reduction) is only available from the exotic Worms with BM Hunters being a rarity. Feral Tanks may simply reallocate points from Ferocity (given that rage is very rarely an issue in ICC) to Feral Aggression.

However it is true that Prot Paladin's Vindication will provide a near 100% uptime on the AP reduction. However it is important to note that it is not guaranteed at a crucial moment (such as Saurfang Heroic when he applies the Mark of the Fallen Champion, which scales his AP at that moment) as it is a proc and subject to the mercy of RNG, whereas Demoralizing Roar can be controlled by the player.

Another point is that in specific encounters mobs may be tanked separately from one another and it is purely up to the Druid to apply the AP reduction. A particularly good example of this would be the Shambling Horrors during the Lich King, where the survivability increase provided by Feral Aggression vastly outweighs the benefit provided by Ferocity.

scr00chy의 댓글

Pretty dumb that this is a first tier talent that buffs Ferocious Bite, an ability that you don't get until level 32.

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위협의 포효로 감소되는 전투력이 40%만큼 증가하고 흉포한 이빨의 피해가 15%만큼 증가합니다.

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효과 #1

Apply Aura: Modifies Spell Effectiveness (8)
값: 40%
PvP 배율: 1
영향 받는 주문들:

위협의 포효	위협의 포효	위협의 포효
위협의 포효	위협의 포효	위협의 포효
위협의 포효	위협의 포효

효과 #2

Apply Aura: Modifies Damage/Healing Done
값: 15%
PvP 배율: 1
영향 받는 주문들:

도려내기	도려내기	도려내기
도려내기	도려내기	도려내기
흉포한 이빨	흉포한 이빨	흉포한 이빨
흉포한 이빨	흉포한 이빨	도려내기
흉포한 이빨	흉포한 이빨	흉포한 이빨
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