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Commento di 11248

These babies can drop the Crusader formula, and it seems it was changed after the 2.0.5 or TBC patch, as a friend of mine got his about 3 hours ago (16/01/07).

Commento di 15313

they spawn around and in the cathedral at tyr's hand, sharing spawnpoints with curates and most praetorians.

Commento di 18155

Yep they definently drop the Crusader recipe. I had one just drop, dropped about 20-30 Archmages. I'm a lvl 70 hunter, so it was an easy task

Commento di Phioner

I confirmed that these mobs can drop crusader formula. I killed spellbinders for 30mins and they didn't drop this, I moved to the tyr's hand and the 3rd archmage I killed dropped off this.

Commento di 47617

The archmages appear to be on a rotating spawn with Curates. So if there aren't any archmages, kill curates, and they should pop eventually.

Commento di Sakesama

Not sure about anyone else but I managed to get the crusader enchant to drop after only a few kills, maybe twenty. I was seeing if I could farm it so someone I know could use it to enchant my warriors weapons. Now the proud owner of Vanquisher's Sword (https://www.cuckhead.com/wotlk/item=10823) and Sword of Serenity (https://www.cuckhead.com/wotlk/item=6829) both enchanted with Crusader.

Basically just keep at it and you should get the enchant soon, sorry to all those with rotten luck. =(

Commento di Kurasu

Grinding archmages is made even easier if you're just looking for them. Archmages all carry with them a lit staff which casts a glow on the ground. If you're not feeling like grinding forever, just do a quick check for the pats with the lights, or lit mobs standing in the pairs and trios. This is made even easier at night, when the light *really* shows up around those mobs.

Commento di 31957

MUCH better drop rate on the Archmages
Spent two days farming the Spellbinders and nothing
I go to Tyr's Hand and get it on the 10 kill of the Archmages

Server: Khaz'Goroth

Commento di 332056

More specifically, it seems that the praetorians that act as stationary "guards" to the chapel do not share spawns with archmages or curates. However the curates and praetorians that move or talk share spawns. I can confirm that all 3 spawn in most locations as well.

I got the crusader pattern after 113 kills. Took approximately 2 hours as a lvl 80 hunter distracted by guild conversation.

1% drop may sound low, but here's a table outlining your combined chances of getting at least 1 drop:

Number of kills - Chance to get at least one

20 - 18%
40 - 33%
80 - 55%
100 - 63%
200 - 87%
500 - 99%

edit for clarification: To the extent of my knowledge, one kill has no effect on the outcome of other kills, and thus can be treated as a combination of independent events. The probability of at least one dropping in 5 kills is the chance that you get 1 drop, 2 drops, 3 drops, 4 drops, or 5 drops. In no way is this saying that killing 500 will give you a 99% chance to find one, nor does it say you need to kill 500 to receive a drops. The correct way to think of these statistics is that if you kill 200 mobs blindfolded you have an 87% chance of finding one or more patterns in your inventory.

Commento di 363454

They HAVEN'T highest drop chance, look how much that have been looted. Now look how much Spellbinders have been looted.

Commento di 327901

Their pretty funny to kite, but you have to know strong guards, or your gonna die ;( Not funny... was close by my self, always take a melee to take them with you

Commento di Grabnex

Tip: Kill the door guards at the temple on you way out. When they respawn outside, it means the temple has respawned too. Like a egg timer, only worth about 50sp and occasionally a green.

Commento di 433020

1% drop may sound low, but here's a table outlining your chances of getting at least 1 drop:

Number of kills - Chance to get at least one
* 20 - 18%
* 40 - 33%
* 80 - 55%
* 100 - 63%
* 200 - 87%
* 500 - 99%

The above is 100% at being incorrect, at least.

A 1% drop means each drop has 1% of giving you that item. And 99% of not.

So after 20 drops, your chances remain 1%.

After 500, your chances remain 1%.

Your "odds" of getting at least one never improve, because WOW doesn't calculate how many drops you've had. It's not like a card deck, where your odds of getting a specific card improve each time you remove one from the deck. 1/52, 5/51, 1/50; thus increasing your odds of getting it. Wow resets the odds, each and every drop, so kill count is completely irrelevant.

Simply: You might farm 20,000 of these guys and never get one, because you still have a 99% chance of not getting it.

Look up "Gambler's Fallacy" on Wiki. Basically, just because you think you have better odds, because you've done it so many times...doesn't actually have anything to do with your statistical odds.

Commento di 433020

I ranked you down, because the chance of the 200th or the 500th might not be higher, but the cobined chance after killing X of the mobs is higher, and it can be calculated by (1-^number of tries), the way you make it sound is completely false, cause you make it sound as if you rolled a die once and if you didn't get the drop you'll never get it, this is untrue, and after killing many of thse mobs the chance of it not having dropped reduces considerably, tough I'm sure many people won't beleive in your post, as they have farmed for a low chance item and succeded.

You're overlooking several things, though.

1. If someone farms a low chance item, and succeeds, all that proves is that they got the 1/1000 chance, or whatever the drop percentage is. That proves absolutely zero about the likelihood of the drop changing over time. Theoretically, you could get it 5 times in a row. And then never get the item again, after thousands of tries.

2. If the odds actually did change, which they don't, then you might as well tell everyone to play the lottery as often as possible, because the likelihood of them not winning will decrease each time they play. Gambler's fallacy, like stated.

The bottom line is, the game keeps no record of what dropped last, or use that as a calculation for the next. And therefore, any equation that makes an assumption of comparing previous drops to the next, is incorrect.

Commento di Spungo

You're missing the point, while the "Gambler's Fallacy" you mentioned is correct and the drop rate per mob does not change over time, it's not what the original poster was talking about.

Consider each single mob has a 1% chance of dropping the enchant and that 100 mobs are a "block".

Yes the 1st mob has a 1% chance of dropping the enchant, yes the 50th mob has a 1% chance of dropping the enchant and yes, even the 100th mob has a 1% chance of dropping the enchant.
HOWEVER..
As a combined 100 kills, A "block", the drop rate is actually 63.4%
(1- ^ number of kills)

This is comparable to someone rolling a dice, the chance of a six with one roll is 1/6 or 16.6r%, the chance of someone rolling at least one six with three rolls is 91/216 or 42.13%

Commento di 433020

As a combined 100 kills, A "block", the drop rate is actually 63.4%
(1- ^ number of kills)

This is comparable to someone rolling a dice, the chance of a six with one roll is 1/6 or 16.6r%, the chance of someone rolling at least one six with three rolls is 91/216 or 42.13%

Too bad that WoW doesn't account for "blocks" of anything. Each drop is independent of the last. And thus, lumping them into blocks, is pointless.

Either the fallacy is correct, or the math is. And since this is a probability based on independent events, the math has no basis.

Gambler's fallacy specifically states that there can be no calculation for probability on something that is random. Such as rolling the dice. No matter how many times you roll it, you cannot state that there is any specific odd that you will get any specific outcome.

Lets say you roll a six, 150 times in a row. What's the odd that you'll roll another 6? 1/6. Your calculation would put it at fairly impossible. But it remains 1/6.

Go read the article on it, again.

As stated; "the fallacy is built on the notion that previous failures indicate an increased probability of success on subsequent attempts."

And like most fallacies, lots of people believe in them. And try to prove them. And are completely wrong.

Commento di Spungo

Too bad that WoW doesn't account for "blocks" of anything. Each drop is independent of the last. And thus, lumping them into blocks, is pointless.

The "block" was merely an attempt to make my explanation easier to digest, by considering the entire series of 100 kills is infact only one iteration, and in the context its entirely mathematically correct to do so.

Assuming each try is independant, saying something has a 1% chance on the first try, a 1% chance on the 100th try and a 1% chance on the 1,000,000th try is entirely correct.

Also, assuming each try is independant, saying something has a 1% chance per try and per 100 tries you have a 63.4% chance of the event happening is entirely correct too.

If you were to reiterate the 100 tries millions of times, you would find that per 100 tries, you would indeed get a figure close to 63.4%

Just to clarify in the hope that this time you will understand what I mean, I am NOT suggesting that if, after 99 tries the event had not happened, the 100th try would yield a 63.4% chance (this is what the "Gambler's Fallacy" is all about).

However, probabilities can never be accurately modelled purely due to their nature and in realistic circumstances a 1% chance will rarely come out as 1 per 100, it only becomes evident when you do millions of iterations, which is why a lot of people seem to get confused about them.

I hope if you reply to me again you can post a new example to prove why I'm wrong rather than why you're right, which I've never disputed, it's just that you're missing the point.

Commento di 293933

it took about twenty kills for me to get the enchant, and I was only going there experimentally. If, even after 500 kills, you're still not getting it, just remember; it could just as easily have dropped off of the first kill. that percentage is not saying, "kill this many, and you'll get the enchant." If you've killed a ton of 'em and it just won't drop, give up for the day and come back later. It will save you from a ton of wasted time and stress. Incidentally, the archmages aren't the only ones that drop the enchant, although they're most likely the easiest to farm. If some jerk's going through the same trouble as you and just killing all the mobs before you get to them, there's a tower in the western plaguelands that spawns scarlet spellbinders; these folks have just about the same percentage chance of giving you it. But don't get worked up over it. If worse heads in the general direction of worst, you can always buy the formula from the AH.

Commento di ManyLith

Been wanting to get this Enchant for twinks..but never really went for it because of the low drop rate..but today on my Pally i was bored and decided to go for it. As i come to Ty's Hand in EPL I saw a Scarlet Archmage and killed her. Guess what drops on my very first kill lol. If you aren't as lucky as I was then keep killing it will eventually drop. Also these mobs drop tons of Runecloth that sales pretty good on the AH for people trying to get Rep with all major Cities.

Commento di Justly

Here, let me explain. I think I know something that will clear up all of this arguing.

50% chance of drop

What does that mean? Does that mean 50% of the time you will ALWAYS get the drop? Absolutely NOT.

A "chance" only means that it has the possibility of dropping, not that it will. So the way that you have to look at it is: 1/2 of the time, you will NOT get it. Not the other way around. Lets say something has a 90% chance to drop. Does that mean if you kill it 10 times, it will drop 9 times? No. It means that if you kill it 10 times, there is a probability that it will drop 9 times. However, there is a 100% chance that 10% of the time, the item will not drop.

So, lets recap, what does all this mean in 1 shot sentence?

If something has a 20% drop rate, that means 20 percent of the time it has the possibility of dropping, the other 80%, it will not drop.

Commento di 106282

To address the probability junk above. there are no guarantees. It is a probablistic indicater. In a fashion similar to tossing a coin.

Statistics Lesson 101: Event-occurrance probability is multiplicative. Multiple events, to have joint probability, must have their individual probability values multiplied.

Example: Toss a coin. The probabiliity of it coming up heads (or tails) is 1-in-2 or .50 probability, discounting the infintisamal chance of it landing on edge). Toss it twice, and *each toss* has an independent probability of .50 for either heads or tails, but the probability of *both* being the same (i.e. two heads) is multiplicative, i.e. 0.50 * 0.50, or 0.250, or 1-in-4 chance. Carrying this further, the probability of tossing it four times sequentially, and having it come up heads all four times is (0.50)^4, or 0.0625, a 6.25%. The thing to remember here is these are in fact independent events, but the outcmoe requirements make them dependent on probability. It should be easily seen that the odds of tossing a coin 4 times and having heads come up all four is the *same* as tossing four coins at once and having them all land heads: 6.25%.

On to the subject of much apparent debate on this thread, Crusader appears to have a 1% drop rate. That means 99% of the time (or .99 probability) it will NOT drop off the mage you kill. Therefore, the probability of killing two mages with NO drop would be (0.99)^2, 0.9801, etc. Some more numbers below:

Probability of NO drop in 'N' kills.
1 = 99%
2 = 98.01%
3 = 97.03%
4 = 96.06%
5 = 95.10%
10 = 90.44%
20 = 81.79%
50 = 60.50%
69 = 49.98%
75 = 47.06%
100 = 36.60%
150 = 22.15%
200 = 13.40%
300 = 4.90%
400 = 1.8%
500 = 0.66%

Note the point when it crosses the 50% line. after 69 kills the only explanation for your NOT getting the drop by that point and beyond is just plain bad luck, since the odds are cumulitvely in your favor. Again, each drop is still 1/100, but after 69 with no drop, every kill you don't get one, assuming blizzard has a pure 1% drop rate, speaks to your bad luck, not your good.

You can, in fact, reach 500 kills (and beyond) with no drop. At that point pat yourself on the back and be at least rewarded in knowing you've done somthing amazing. Its not everyone that can kill 500 mages and get no drop. In fact, there's only a 0.66% chance of it, and you beat the odds. Then go uninstall the game, drop feces in the gamebox you bought, and send it back to blizzard. I know I would.

Commento di Thottbot

first off i can't find him where he's listed as being (i'm alliance)

Second, does he really drop stuff (julie's dagger especially) cuz he's listed as faction and faction guys tend not to drop anything but moneya nd cloth.

Commento di Thottbot

He's in Tyr's Hand in Eastern Plaguelands, east of Corin's crossing. In the upper area, past the enchanters, clerics, and wardens. As for the dagger, I know that drops in Lower Black Rock Spires instance, I believe from the Ogre boss near the beginning.

Commento di Thottbot

are they really elites?.. haven't been there myself but wanting too.. and im getting confused what the others are saying bout' em.. please do tell me.. are they really elites?

Commento di Thottbot

Yes these guys are elite

Commento di Thottbot

Confirmed, these guys share spawn points with the Praetorians and the Curates. Kill everything in sight, because you never know what the respawn will end up as.

Commento di Neferaton

Take care of these mobs as they are quite dangerous for both melees and casters. They have a similar frost armor as mages which reduces attack speed as well as your running speed after you hit them with your melee attacks.
Also, they are casting a fireball that hits quite hard.

If you're a caster, they will counterspell you.

In my opinion the scarlet archmages are be the hardest "normal" mobs in Tyr's Hand right after the Scarlet Inquisitors in the basement of the castle.

Commento di rodavlasilad

Crusader enchant drops from Archmages in TBC Classic (dropped for me after 203 kills on 2021-07-12)

Commento di Flashcase23

They will drop Crusader enchant in wraith classic as of 1/05/2023 after about 150 kills

Scarlet Archmage

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