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Subtlety Rogue: First Impression of the New Subtlety Talent Trees in Dragonflight
巨龙时代
由
fuu1
发表于
2022/08/08,10:00
With the reveal of the Dragonflight Rogue talent trees, our Subtlety Rogue writer fuu1 provides initial reactions and thoughts on this revamped system. We break down the Subtlety Rogue talent trees, discussing the new talents and providing some sample builds. Join us as we predict how this class could play in Dragonflight!
To learn about the best PvE talent builds in Dragonflight for this class, and export these builds into the game, please check out our Assassination, Outlaw, and Subtlety Rogue class guides:
Assassination Rogue Talent BuildsOutlaw Rogue Talent BuildsSubtlety Rogue Talent Builds
Rogue Dragonflight Class Tree
Rogue Dragonflight Talents - What's New?
The start of the new expansion Dragonflight completely overhauls the existing talent system. Instead of unlocking a talent tier roughly every ten character levels, you are now presented with two trees you can put in points as your character level progresses. The class tree contains spells that are core to the class fantasy while the spec trees will emphasize on abilities unique to your specialization or extends baseline abilities into aspects that fit the spec fantasy. These trees contain both active and passive abilities that reach from damage throughput to utility.
The first thing every Subtlety player will notice when looking at the tree is that both
暗影之舞
as well as
洞悉弱点
are now class abilities. While this is a great addition for the other two specs, it means that some of the most iconic Subtlety Rogue specific abilities are now part of the general class fantasy with other implications stated further down in the article.
There are also three unexpected returning talents with
冷血
on the right side of the tree and the Kyrian covenant ability
申斥回响
as the capstone node for the middle path as well as a the iconic item
菊花茶
that returns as a spell with three charges.
The tree also offers some strong options from the other two specializations with
,
凿击
and
封印命运
.
You can also choose from an array of new passive effects with
致命偷袭
,
精打细算
,
强化伏击
,
经世之才
or
恶毒药膏
.
Rogue Dragonflight Talent Tree - First Impressions
By adding a lot of Subtlety Rogues core abilities to the talent tree you create an imbalance in that you likely need to go down the right branch of the tree to get your baseline Shadow Dance charge. The main reason is that
暗影之舞
in combination with
侵蚀之影
lacks dynamic in use without two
暗影之舞
charges and the only way to get this is to talent into
暗影之舞
in both the class as well as the spec tree.
Considering the above, I came up with three example talent tree builds:
View on Dragonflight Talent Tree
View on Dragonflight Talent Tree
View on Dragonflight Talent Tree
Going down the right path allows you to grab
装死
,
洞悉弱点
and
暗影之舞
.
精打细算
is skipped mostly because of the low impact.
割裂
and
切割
have already a fairly low energy cost of 25 energy
刺骨
is a bit higher with 35 energy. This means that the energy return per finisher for each point in the node is 2-3 energy.
无情打击
in contrast gives 6 energy per combo point for a single node. The tree also offers alternative energy talents that might be more efficient.
Going down the middle path gives access to
强化伏击
which gives
暗影打击
additional combo point generation. The problem with this is that we create potential combo point overflow. Putting one point into
深邃诡计
could solve this but
深邃诡计
is also a very expensive node as it requires three points of
敏锐
.
敏锐
by itself is a very powerful talent but it seems like it might not be worth to invest this much into a talent that might be able to self sustain with only a one or two point investment.
Switching some points around by moving from
深邃诡计
to
精力
seems possible but Subtlety does not seem to benefit a lot from the extra energy buffer.
When less points are put in
敏锐
and potentially
致命偷袭
, it opens up the middle path down to
申斥回响
. While this seems attractive, it is unclear if the point investment gives sufficient returns. The problem is that this requires an additional pickup of a utility node with
飘忽不定
that only unlocks the full potential of
申斥回响
after a 3 more point investment.
A completely alternative path would include moving even more points from the middle path to the left side of the tree to unlock
封印命运
. The potential problem with picking this is that you can combine
封印命运
with
强化伏击
which would create even more combo points that would lead to either overflow or earlier finishing rules.
封印命运
also gets more consistent with higher amounts of critical strike. However, the additional combo point generation would allow
暗影之舞
to get even more cdr from
侵蚀之影
.
Overall I think there are some interesting decisions in the tree and trade offs to be considered.
Problems of the Rogue Tree:
Most of these problems are smaller concerns but something to think about:
Some nodes seem to be weak and are usually not considerable due to that. Two examples are
菊花茶
and
精打细算
. Neither of them seem terrible but hard to justify over other nodes.
Some nodes require multiple point investments with low/diminishing return potentially locking the player out from choosing follow up nodes. Both
敏锐
and
致命偷袭
fall under that with
敏锐
being the more problematic one, given that it is possible that 1-2 points could already satisfy the talent to maintain the maximum stack amount.
装死
is a very strong raid utility that is very far down the tree, this is not an issue for Subtlety as you in general will want to take the right path anyways, but could be earlier in the tree to make the talent feel more generally available.
Subtlety Rogue Spec Tree
Subtlety Rogue talents for Raiding - What's New?
The spec-specific tree contains some completely new spells, as well as a couple of returning ones and some changes to existing spells.
断魂之舞
- A completely new spell that seems to be inspired by
申斥回响
.
纠缠暗影
- A completely new talent that empowers
背刺
after using
暗影之舞
.
遁形无迹
- Is a new talent, that gives you a second charge of
消失
.
第一支舞
- Seems like a modified version of
第一支舞
that gives you combo points when using
暗影之舞
暗影增生
- Is a rework of the Battle for Azeroth azerite power
暗影增生
that spreads
割裂
to one target and makes
割裂
tick for additional 30% damage.
命中注定
- Is an iteration of the Battle of Azeroth azerit power
命中注定
.
玄黑秘酿
- Is a new talent that converts more of your damage to shadow and allows it to interact with
深刺匕首
.
虚帷之触
- Is a new talent that empowers your magic damage, it seems weak as a single node but could work well in combination with
玄黑秘酿
and
深刺匕首
.
静默风暴
- Is a new talent wich provides the player with a more consistent way to apply FW in multi target situations.
终结预兆
- Brings back the legendary power
终结预兆
that empowers your next finishing move after using a finishing move. The buff duration was cut down to 12 seconds.
腐化印记
- Brings back the legendary power
腐化印记
that generates combo points after using
死亡符记
.
提神影尘
- Brings back the legendary power
提神影尘
that reduces all remaining cooldowns by up to 20 seconds when using
消失
.
败血刃伤
and
狂热鞭笞
- Both covenant abilities that return as talents.
狂热鞭笞
in a slightly changed version to proc Mastery instead of Haste.
铁拳穿刺
,
处决谋划
,
刹那抉择
,
短剑断奏
and
深刺匕首
- Returns conduits from Shadowlands.
Several Talents got adjustments in duration or impact:
死亡符记
,
暗影之刃
,
暗影之舞
- Got nerfs to their damage amplifiers.
暗影之舞
duration went up to 9 seconds from 8.
黑暗之影
and
终结预兆
- got a buff to their damage amplifiers.
暗影集中
- Energy reduction got lowered from 20% to 15%.
铁拳穿刺
- Now stacks only to 3 down from 6.
Subtlety Rogue Dragonflight Talent Tree - First Impressions
The Subtlety Rogue tree is still in early development. It has some issues but the recent alpha update did fix some. The current version is mostly linear after the 8th point investment. There are no connection between the 3 branches that would allow you to continue. The middle part of the tree is mostly focused on spells that depend on
暗影之舞
, the right branch is mostly finisher/AoE focused. Almost all AoE nodes can be skipped now which allows the player to make more precise decisions for their damage profile.
Example Builds
There is a lot of room for experimentation in the trees and I welcome everyone to experiment and see what works well and what does not. I will provide one example for a single target and Mythic plus tree below.
View on Dragonflight Talent Tree
View on Dragonflight Talent Tree
Both builds are very similar in pathing as the right side seems to offer a high amount of strong nodes. The middle path gives you access to
暗影之舞
and
侵蚀之影
to create the baseline feedback loop of the spec.
黑暗之影
gives additional power to
暗影之舞
.
The right side gives you a lot of nodes that synergize well.
玄黑秘酿
increases the damage of your bleeds as well as further increasing damage from nodes like
影武终结
and
暗影增生
.
深刺匕首
buffs it by another 15% and another 10% from
虚帷之触
.
终结预兆
increases the baseline damage what just further increases output.
狂热鞭笞
is also a strong pick, given that it does shadow damage and gets benefits from all the shadow/magic damage amplifiers mentioned above. All these Talents work very well together and should allow subtlety to have a more magic damage heavy split.
The outstanding nodes on the left side are
死亡符记
and
败血刃伤
.
玄黑秘酿
converts Sepsis to Shadow damage what allows it to benefit from all the talent nodes above that interact with magic/shadow damage.
死亡符记
adds another cooldown that can be aligned to
狂热鞭笞
or
败血刃伤
to increase throughput by providing a 10% damage amp as well as a higher critical strike chance from
处决谋划
.
The build is overall very well rounded and has a lot of positive aspects to it. The transition to a build with more focus on multi target or AoE is also fairly simple. The two initial nodes
暗影步
and
刹那抉择
can be changed to
强化袖剑风暴
and
黑火药
and
败血刃伤
can be exchanged for
袖剑旋风
. After switching these nodes it is possible to switch from
预谋
to
静默风暴
. But the choice here is likely more situational.
Another exciting build to explore on single target would be to re-distribute some points into
纠缠暗影
and
幽暗之刃
. Doing so could shift more of the damage of the specialization to time between
暗影之舞
cast with potential to optimize casts in a way that maximizes
纠缠暗影
uptime.
Problems of the Subtlety tree:
The change to
铁拳穿刺
makes the power potential of the node hard to read and gameplay implications non obvious. Reducing the stack count from 6 to 3 means you will cap on stacks in the middle of
暗影之舞
. It is likely that it isn't worth to use
背刺
during
暗影之舞
but that could depend on other node choices. The 6 stack approach from Shadowlands does not suffer from this problems which would make it a great solution.
The lower left part of the talent tree seems less appealing.
提神影尘
being a two point node with the requirement of going over
铁拳穿刺
makes it a risky choice given that the CDR component isn't necessarily a big damage gain.
断魂之舞
similar to
申斥回响
will lead to a bad user experience. The main problem is the somewhat random combo point income from
暗影技巧
(procs on each 3rd or 4th auto attack). While an experienced player will be able to count auto attacks to use the empowered finisher efficiently, a lot of users will find themselves using finishing moves on inefficient values due to combo point generation of
暗影技巧
.
强化背刺
still has positional requirements and recent boss fights did not always make it easy to stand behind the target or had hit boxes that behaved in a non-logical manner. Having even more damage dependencies from nodes like
铁拳穿刺
makes this more punishing.
There is a broken dependency between
暗影技巧
and
短剑断奏
. While it is unlikely that you will not talent into
暗影技巧
, it seems like something easy to fix by moving nodes around.
There is still no choice node in the Subtlety Rogue tree.
Lack of Raid Utility
Dragonflight introduced raid utility to both the Outlaw as well as the Assassination spec tree. Outlaw got
无休部众
and Assassination
萎缩药膏
. While the impact of both highly depend on raid design and group composition, it creates a uneven playing field within Rogue specs and the potential to require one spec over the other due to spec specific raid utility.
The best approach to solve this is to move raid utility to the class tree and have access to it for all specializations.
Subtlety Rogue Dragonflight Talents for Raiding - How Strong is It?
The elephant in the room at this point is sadly raid utility, and will likely stay a relevant discussion up to the point of official changes, but I am fairly positive this will be adjusted.
Raid utility aside, the talent tree gives you options to decide between single target, multi target and in some cases also utility. Specific nodes like
暗影增生
or
玄黑秘酿
will integrate spells like
割裂
deeper into the spec and potentially help with damage in cleave situations. The main focus of the spec seems to still be single target and the gameplay loop will likely not alter significantly from the Shadowlands version.
狂热鞭笞
changing from Haste to Mastery as well as
暗影之舞
getting a potential higher damage amp could lead to a higher burst potential and help increase funnel damage.
Conclusion
The talent trees have gotten me hyped for the new expansion and given me something to play around with. The class tree is to a degree not as exciting, given that a most of the talents you would want to choose are in the Subtlety branch of the tree. The spec tree emphasizes the core aspects of the specialization and potentially allows for a fair amount of flexibility. However, the majority of the choice is in point changes in a smaller range.
Interested in playing Subtlety Rogue now? Check our out live guide for this spec!
Subtlety Rogue Guide
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