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Retribution Paladin: First Impression of the New Retribution Talent Trees in Dragonflight
巨龙时代
由
Bolas
发表于
2022/08/15,10:00
With the reveal of the Dragonflight Paladin talent trees, our Retribution Paladin writer Bolas provides initial reactions and thoughts on this revamped system. We break down the Retribution Paladin talent trees, discussing the new talents and providing some sample builds. Join us as we predict how this class could play in Dragonflight!
To learn about the best PvE talent builds in Dragonflight for this class, and export these builds into the game, please check out our Holy, Protection, and Retribution Paladin class guides:
Holy Paladin Talent BuildsProtection Paladin Talent BuildsRetribution Paladin Talent Builds
Paladin Dragonflight Talents
What's New?
Talents in Dragonflight will have a structure more similar to older expansions, where you pick paths down the tree rather than a single option for each row. Retribution has two talent trees, a class one that it shares with Protection and Holy Paladin and a spec tree unique to Retribution. In theory this should provide more customizability, since you can combine any two talents on the tree you want to.
Most of the contents of the Paladin tree are older effects, but there are a couple of noteworthy things that Retribution gains access to:
圣光审判
- This will provide quite a bit of passive HPS to a raid. It's also on a required path to take throughput traits, so there's little opportunity cost to take it.
破咒祝福
- Previously a Protection only talent, this replaces
保护祝福
with a Magic immunity rather than a Physical one. Almost all damage and effects in raids are Magic rather than Physical, so this extra utility will help make Retribution a little bit more useful in raid environments. It can also be used as an extra defensive in a pinch.
Other than those two, all of the other new effects are pretty standard passive effects like
神圣护佑
or
光明之触
.
First Impressions
The Paladin tree is actually much more restrictive on choice than it first looks. Firstly, as a DPS you're going to aim to take all the talents that meaningfully increase your throughput that you can. This is what that path looks like:
Spend 6 points to path through
敏锐圣印
and take
雪恨圣印
.
Spend 7 points to path down to
神圣护佑
.
Spend 5 points to path to take
复仇之怒
,
保护祝福
, and
神圣意志
.
Spend 1-2 points to take
残光
and/or
坚决
in order to get access to the bottom third of the tree.
After these choices, you end up with 0-1 points left over to allocate to utility above the 20 point threshold before you can spend the rest, which most of the time will be spent on
骑手
or
牺牲祝福
. There are some choices between utility options as you path down, such as between
自由祝福
and
圣疗术
, but there isn't a large degree of customization that you'd expect - it's one or two points worth, and only at specific points on the tree. This problem persists at the bottom of the tree. You have 11 points to spend in the bottom, and after spending a point on the effectively mandatory
复仇之怒
, you have exactly enough points to get two of the three capstones and associated throughput talents. Again, the only real choice you make here is which capstone you don't want to take - once you decide that, all of your points are locked in.
View on Dragonflight Talent Tree
The problems causing this are the placement of the throughput nodes and the lack of connections between each section of the tree. The throughput talents
雪恨圣印
and
神圣护佑
are both more than halfway down the tree and on opposite sides, both requiring points invested from the top of the tree in order to pick them. There's no branching paths to access them earlier. The only connections between each branch of the tree are to the nodes directly below the
雪恨圣印
and
神圣护佑
nodes themselves, which becomes meaningless when you would always pick both of them anyway. There's no connections below that either, which isolates the capstones to basically being 5 point talent packages. If the idea with the new class trees is to let players drop some types of utility for others depending on the circumstance, that's fine in theory, but the way this tree is structured you'll end up eschewing almost all utility you can for more damage.
Other than pathing, there's a couple of other things I'm not especially fond of in the tree. A lot of the talent points are spent on extra effects for abilities that you already have that are basically required to play the class, like
复仇之怒
or
强效审判
, which don't feel exciting to take and instead feel like a tax to make your abilities function the same way they used to. Aside from the capstone abilities and
神圣意志
, all of the throughput talents in the Paladin tree are also fairly uninteresting. They're all either straight stat buffs like
敏锐圣印
or
力量圣印
, or they're basic ability buffs or procs like
十字军圣印
or
雪恨圣印
, which also all cost a ton of points to invest in to progress further. I would strongly prefer a tree either without any throughput nodes above the 20 point threshold, or with just a small number that are very easily accessible like all of the other class trees.
On a more positive note, the capstone abilities themselves should be pretty fun to play with.
黄昏与黎明
was a Legendary effect in Shadowlands that didn't see much use, but would be more fun to play with when the buff you get from it is more significant thanks to
秩序圣印
, and providing passive damage reduction is a great bonus too.
圣洁怒火
is the old Protection version of the ability, so while it won't proc AoE damage from spending Holy Power anymore, boosting the power of
审判
inside
复仇之怒
is still a nice bonus, especially when combined with
圣洁鸣钟
.
疯狂圣贤
is also a Legendary effect from Shadowlands, but now also extends
复仇之怒
with
审判
. My only concern with the capstones is that
圣洁怒火
and
疯狂圣贤
may have too much synergy between them, since they both extend
复仇之怒
, benefit from further extensions, and incentivize you to cast
审判
as frequently as possible.
Retribution Dragonflight Talents
What's New?
The majority of talents in the Ret tree are versions of previously existing effects, but there's a couple of noteworthy new effects or surprising returning ones:
奉献之剑
- Drops
奉献
when you use
公正之剑
after an
战争艺术
reset. Adds a nice AoE component to one of your better Holy Power generators, which helps improve passive cleave a little bit. All of your generators previously only did single target damage, which was a problem on AoE when almost all of your damage would be from
神圣风暴
or cooldowns like
圣洁鸣钟
.
处决者的意志
/
处决者的愤怒
-
处决者的意志
extends
处决宣判
duration depending on how many
圣殿骑士的裁决
you cast inside it. This is a really interesting way to change the gameplay that
处决宣判
revolved around previously - it used to be just trying to fit as much damage as possible into an 8 second window, which meant that there were some fairly significant Haste breakpoints. Now it'll probably be more focused on extending the burst window for longer instead, which will be something new that I expect to both be very fun to figure out sequencing for and also very fun to play with.
处决者的愤怒
instead turns
处决宣判
into an AoE ability at the cost of some damage to the primary target. Being able to use
处决宣判
more effectively in cleave or AoE situations is an interesting concept, but I'm a bit concerned that it'll be a significant damage loss on the primary target to take this talent.
光辉敕令
- A new AoE Holy Power spender that replaces
灰烬觉醒
. This ability is a bit weird. It does less damage to the primary target than
灰烬觉醒
, but does a lot more to the other enemies hit. I'm a bit skeptical about
光辉敕令
being worth using in most situations, since it'll probably be a damage loss in single target situations to take since you lose the Holy Power generation from
灰烬觉醒
, but it's an interesting alternative option for AoE.
驱邪术
- A throwback to an older time. This version of
驱邪术
does quite a lot of single target damage, but also puts a decent sized DoT on other nearby enemies if the primary target is inside your
奉献
. It's a nice way to make
奉献
a little bit more relevant to use on AoE without simply buffing its damage, while also not being an ability that's useless on single target. My only concern with it is that it might be adding yet another button to a spec that already has a lot of rotational abilities, depending on the talent build you use.
苍穹之遗
- Basically a passive version of
征服者之锤
. Another option for two target damage or passive cleave is great, but I think it might need to be tuned a bit higher. Necrolord was viable for a bit in Sanctum of Domination for Ret, but it was mostly because with
义缚之槌
you could save up charges to get 3-4 buffed
神圣风暴
s inside each
and
最终清算
. Just getting regular
神圣风暴
procs is good, but it might not be good enough to compete with the other capstone talents at one every 30s. I think this effect is pretty fun to play with though, so I'm happy to see it return as a passive.
法网恢恢
- Would have been a nice mobility perk, but was unfortunately removed in the most recent build.
First Impressions
Overall, I'm pretty excited about the Retribution tree. There's a lot of great old favorites coming back along with some new effects that I really like. You'll probably go into Dragonflight feeling like you have as much, if not more, abilities available to you than you did in Shadowlands, which is very unusual for the start of an expansion.
Example Build - Single Target
View on Dragonflight Talent Tree
This build mostly focuses on the same auto attack synergies you see currently used in Shadowlands with
尘归尘
, while also taking a bunch of abilities that buff
圣殿骑士的裁决
and
审判
. There's quite a lot of flexibility in the top sections - I took
迅捷审判
,
大领主的审判
, and
正义之火
here, but those points could be otherwise spent on
神圣十字军
or more
异端逐除
synergy, or even
苍穹之力
or
无尽审判
for some cleave while maintaining a single target focused build.
Example Build - AoE
View on Dragonflight Talent Tree
This is focusing on full AoE, but for 2-3 target cleave you'd probably take
苍穹之遗
instead of something like
圣洁庇护
.
真理觉醒
is clearly designed with AoE in mind, but is currently too undertuned to be worth taking.
One of the big chokepoints in the tree is the row of talents that flow into the bottom third - mostly
妨害之手
and
治疗之手
. Every talent on this row is a utility talent, so it's clearly intended that you need to invest into a non throughput talent in order to get access to the most powerful abilities at the bottom. The problem with this though is that you're now heavily incentivized to just pick one of either
妨害之手
or
治疗之手
, and none of the other utility talents on the row in order to just get an extra throughput talent earlier on in the tree. Either one you pick you'll get access to
圣洁鸣钟
,
尘归尘
, and
最终清算
, and then the choice just becomes whether you want access to
无情审讯
and
处决宣判
or
圣殿骑士的辩护
and
最终审判
. It's not fun to be railroaded into capstone choices through the cost of losing throughput earlier on, or to have your utility choice be purely dictated by the throughput you want that's locked behind it.
This iteration of the talent tree definitely has a greater degree of customizability than the previous version. There's more small pockets of talents that clearly are designed to give you the option to focus on certain "builds", like
异端逐除
, which is great. Some of them still seem a bit too strong, and others not accentuated enough though -
狂热
and
愤怒之剑
both being on a basically mandatory path means that you're very likely to want to take
尘归尘
and its synergies as well, while
异端逐除
and talents that work with it like
谴责之刃
seem a bit undertuned and are easily skippable. The recent changes are definitely a step in the right direction, especially at the bottom of the tree, but I think the middle could use some more work to make some of the talents for these builds more interesting and work together in different ways. Talents that are basically different flavors of "buff ability by x%" like
大领主的审判
or
封印裁决
or even
愤怒圣印
aren't really inspiring new combinations or interesting gameplay.
征伐
and
复仇之怒:凛威
being moved into the middle of the tree is great, since that's pretty much a required talent to take for every build. However,
征伐
is much stronger than
复仇之怒:凛威
, since you're basically comparing 20% damage and Crit to 30% damage and Haste. Even with the ramping time,
征伐
also has a 5 second longer base duration, so there's really no contest.
复仇之怒:凛威
either needs to be replaced and added to baseline
复仇之怒
or buffed - one option would be to add the current version of Ret
圣洁怒火
to it, ie.
圣光赦令
.
For a last handful of gripes, I really don't like seeing
奉献
have so many talents that buff it. It's not a fun button to press, since it neither interacts with the building/spending Holy Power gameplay loop nor does enough damage to be worth using outside of that unless everything else is on cooldown - it's basically just a filler button that you feel obligated to press because it does more than 0 damage, similar to how Rogues used to spam
侦测
when pooling Energy to proc cast effects.
土归土
will probably still be a decent talent at a 35% chance, but there will be many more situations where it either doesn't proc before
灰烬觉醒
comes off cooldown or it procs just before it would come off cooldown anyway, which both feel pretty bad.
奉献之剑
and
土归土
also have some awkward antisynergy since one replaces the chance for the other to proc. It's also disheartening to see
审判官复仇
return, since it's been an awful talent in pretty much every type of content since its inception. A lot of these complaints could be seen as a bit nitpicky, so I want to reiterate that I like the majority of the Ret tree and think most of the recent changes are great, especially in contrast to the Paladin tree - the focus of criticism is just always going to fall on the most obvious flaws.
Retribution Paladin Talents for Dragonflight Raiding - How Strong is it?
Overall, I think Retribution is in a better position than it was in Shadowlands, since you have another tool for either raid utility or a defensive with
破咒祝福
. I think Ret will still probably be one of the squishiest, if not the squishiest, Melee DPS but at least there's one extra tool available to mitigate that. I think the bigger problem it will have is how it can compete for raid spots, since most of the other melee now also bring raid or party buffs of some kind (Warrior, Demon Hunter, Monk, Assassination and Outlaw Rogue, Enhancement Shaman) or raidwide damage mitigation cooldowns (Warrior, Demon Hunter, Death Knight). Melee spots are usually fairly limited, and since Holy Paladin is basically a locked slot Ret won't get a spot for providing
虔诚光环
.
I think there's likely to be a lot more customizability depending on the type of encounter, which is a really nice change. Ret was pigeonholed into running the same talents and Legendaries on almost every fight in Shadowlands once you were locked into a build, but in Dragonflight I think you'll end up choosing between a much wider range of talents depending on the situation. For example, if it's a single target fight but will frequently have waves of add spawns, you could decide to take
苍穹之力
and
光明使者的风暴
in addition to talents that are more single target focused like
正义裁决
. Rather than just swapping between a "Best Single Target" and "Best AoE" build, or even just a "Best Every Situation" build, I think there's more likely to be a lot of smaller adjustments you can make on a per fight basis.
Final Thoughts
I think there's a lot of abilities here that will be very fun to play with, both returning and brand new. There's a lot of powerful combinations that you couldn't previously have, and you get to have a ton of them at the same time. That said, I don't think either tree does much to address the fundamental issues Ret has had recently with either survivability or even getting a raid spot to begin with. I hope to see these issues properly addressed in future builds and the structure of the Paladin tree iterated upon as well.
Interested in playing Retribution Paladin now? Check our out live guide for this spec!
Retribution Paladin Guide
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