it's extremely funny seeing people cry how game makes them do pvp while throughout bfa and legion us pvpers had to do high end pve in order to have a chance at pvp. Also all pvp gear gives vers which is totally useless to most classes so why are you crying this much. PvP gearing is doing fine right now it's not imbalanced or anything and i welcome all to try and get to 2.4k in arena or rbgs. you guys realize it's a ladder system where you deal with other people who want to climb the same ladder aswell right? it's not like everyone can get to 2.4. after so many patches they finally fix pvp for pvpers and out of everyone it's pvers who had to start crying about it. my pvp loving ass didn't want to do &*!@ton of +15s last season too but i had to. atleast you have other alternatives
All of these commenters demanding pvp gear to be nerfed for pve need to get a grip. Are you forgetting that all of it has vers on the gear? How many specs do you know that actually prioritize vers? Vers is basically resilience now. It's not optimized for pve except in a small handful of specs (WW and BrM come to mind). But, of course, all of these comments are critical of the high item level while maintaining absolutely zero understanding of the difficulty of high rating pvp. We get it, you can't pvp, or you're just not a fan of pvp in MMOs, but neither are legitimate reasons to nerf it. PvPers have been forced to farm high item level pve gear to push rating for years now--so god forbid pve'rs see a few of their fellow raiders outgearing them because they actually play all the content in the game. I know some are too young to remember it or don't understand because they started WoW in Cata, MoP, or later, but this is how it used to be; PvP vendors had lucrative gear that could also be used in PvE IF you had the rating and skill level to obtain it. This gear is meant to be good, and it's meant to be lucrative--because you need to be decent to actually obtain it. And if any of you had the ability to obtain the gear, you wouldn't be on wowhead complaining, would you?If you want to be critical of PvP gearing, be critical of the rbg system right now. It's ridiculously easy to obtain 1800 let alone 2400 in rbgs, which enables people to get good gear extremely easily. The system is so inflated that some have already hit above 3000 rating, and likely we'll see 3500+ by the end of the season. RBGs should have their own titles and gearing system that is separate from arena. In arena getting 2400 is not an easy feat and many struggle with even 1800.
This really really sucks seeing as how pvp is the best way to get gear ive been horde for 12 years I just switched to alliance and can't win any bgs like at all and raiding and keystones aren't a reliable or even decent way to get loot thr system REALLY needs to be fixed this xpac is so great but this is its major flaw atm
But they could just add some farmable currency to upgrade mythic+ gear and everyone would be okay its a simple easy fix then pvpers could pvp key runners could run and grind keys and then it wouldn't be a waste of time and raiders could raid all 3 areas of end game would be semi on par and no one would be forced do something they don't like for gear
If you are a class player who is melee, not favored in pug raid nor m+, and is not a pvper, all you have is a weekly chest hoping for an upgrade. As a rogue player in KR server, no one wants rogue in raid, and pugs want ranged dps in m+ scene. I can only run m+ due to my job being tight on time, and the whole playtime i have during my free time is just a rollercoaster of depressing rejection from m+. There's less chance for me to gear up in this expansion for me to enjoy contents with my small groups of guildies than during RNGfest that is BfA. Yes, it's totally right for someone who only plays for a short time to have less ilvl than those playing 8 h a day, but there's no catchup for those ppl with less time in their hands, presumably even at the season end. A bit of compensation at least an additional roll would be great.
This reset I've killed 14 bosses, full clear on normal and 4 so far on heroic. I had 1 item drop all night.It feels terrible. 3 pieces of gear, randomly thrown to 20 people feels awful, and means players realistically can do full clears on their chosen difficulty and not see any drops for literal weeks.It's awful, and something has to change.Also, the lack of bonus rolls was a huge mistake. Without it there's no PvE backup compensation system if you're not lucky on the boss kill, or end of dungeon run.You can't semi-target loot at all, which feels meh. You just have to pray that you get a single drop in an entire clear at all, and further pray on top of that again that it's from a boss you need something off of, then finally hope to RNGesus that it's the actual piece you're looking for.Godawful, broken, stingy and somewhat of a piss-take.At least the Vault was a good idea, but again that's completely bound up in yet more RNG, where you're hoping to roll the dice favourably that it's something you can actually use.
I think it is fine. The problem is the perception issue because we just came from an expansion that gave more loot. But as a casual player that has only done Ulduar outside of LFR I'm at 193 average item level. And by casual I mean I don't do a lot of group content since my /played time is a lot. There are a lot of ways to bump up the low end gear with PvP and Covenant upgrades so you can fill it spots there.It is just once you get to the higher content that you are out of luck but really doesn't seem like it is a big deal since this is a start of a new expansion and you don't need to be showered in gear. I remember back in TBC when people went the entire expansion with out their BIS items. While that wasn't necessarily a good design it does help to put things in perspective a little.Could there be a way to target specific things a little more for high end players as a form of "bad luck" protection? Maybe. That seems to be the biggest issue many have. That the Great Vault is to random where bonus rolls were at least able to target some specific drops. I've also been luckier then most it seems because I've got an items a lot. This week I got 3 item level 200 upgrades from Ulduar. Last week I received 5 between gear and conduits though they did replace a previous lower item level item I got that week.PvP being "Welfare epics" for PvE is nothing new. It is why a Blizzard dev used that phrase when Arenas first came out in TBC and why they moved away from this type of vendors in the first place. But the system came full circle. It is funny how people want certain things until it happens then its back to well X is flawed for Y. When last expansion Y was part of the complaints.
Friendly reminder that 1600 rating in arenas gives you higher ilvl loot than timing world first +21 keys. How anyone at Blizzard thinks this is fair is beyond me.You're wrong about the Intermediate Gear for PvPers Squishei. You can get ilvl 184 items with honor points alone. We'll be able to upgrade it higher than 184 soon when we get 22 renown. Biggest appeal of ilvl 233 items were the weapons as well, but you can just get those from pvp instead now. Some pvp weapons are even better than the Mythic ones. Imagine if they gave you a pvp weapon that was better than Might of Menethil back in Vanilla. PvP gearing system is cannabilising the rest of the game. You get some of the best gear, easiest acquisition of gear and the best cosmetic rewards from PvPing. Unless you are chasing some super specific bis piece of loot from PvE you are better off spending your time grinding for higher Arena rating.PvPers get all the unique and exclusive cosmetic rewards too. Vicious war mounts, titles, r1 titles, gladiator mount, transmog etc. You only get KSM mount for m+, which is basically the vicious war mount. In raids you only get famed slayer and cutting edge achievement as exclusive rewards. Any mount, transmogs or titles that you get from the content can be done once you overgear it. You can't go and solo farm BGs to get gladiator mounts, but you can go solo farm old Mythic raids the Mythic mounts.How about giving some exclusive rewards to Mythic raiders and high m+ pushers for once Blizzard? Last time raiding gave exclusive rewards was in TBC with the Amani War Bear mount, which was devalued by giving people the battle bear for free 2 expansions later. PvPers have gotten exclusive mounts since the implementation of Arenas.
Cant really believe all these comments defending current gearing system against pvp. I mean around 1.5 to 1.8k you basicly just face groups full of m+ 15 roflstompers boosting alts and friends. Hard to get by against those groups REALLY. This system is more than %^&*ed up atm against only rated pvp:ers.
Blizzard loves catch-up mechanics which "punish" current players and "reward" players starting later.Right now, the low loot quality and quantity are just ways to punish the people playing right now, so that when they institute a "fix" catch-up mechanic later, it will feel like a relief, instead of feeling like our time is currently being wasted.This is why Blizzard intentionally installs obtuse and unrewarding systems like this without letting us know how they plan to "fix" them in advance; because then we'd see the bait for what it is.
So my Problem is, i dont get Luck. :D I play my Paladin every Day M+, every Week clearing the Raid, and my biggest Problem is, i get 2 Times(!) the Bag from Xy'mox. Two times the Bag and he count as Loot! One Time i dont get another Item, only the Bag from 10 Bossfights, and in a second run, i get a Ring that i give away, and the next Bag.Some other Players in my Guild goes two times the Raid and get 6 or 7 Items. After two Weeks and only from Raid.The same Players are so extrem lucky in M+, we played 14 M+6/12 Dungeons last week at one Day. And our two luckiest Guys get Loot from 9 and "the winner" from 11 Dungeons. What is this? The Next Guy get 5.But some other Guy 11, in the Same number of Dungeons, same Group? So i dont will flame, "ohh i dont get loot i want it all!", but all the weakness from Titanforge away, the Loot in BFA and Legion was so mutch better.Just the feeling, now you run a 10 Bosses Raid and get a Bag as your Loot that dont have more slots or any use, is so crazy. Sorry for my Englisch, its not my mother Lenguage :D
Mythic Plus has never given Mythic-raid level gear at end of the run, and it shouldn't, because to spam +15 is far easier than to beat a Mythic raid on a weekly lockout that will most likely drop nothing. Also, gear 233 from Mythic Plus? From doing what content? Finishing a +21? I say that, because someone who does a +15 definitely doesn't deserve a 233 weapon. Even HC raiders can do a +15, it's not hard, it's hard only for PuGs with no coordination or what-so-ever (and even then, you can just form a PuG with high raider.io and storm thru the M+ as usual).
Separate the gear in m+ and raiding. Can't use m+ gear in raiding and vice versa. Let m+ gear scale accordingly. win/win.
The issue is more so that there is a stark contrast between the availability of loot between the different content types, and this has always been an issue, but it's become so much more prevalent now.One content type (pvp) has an almost entirely deterministic gearing path, and while people playing at that highest skill level do deserve the rewards they're getting, the fact it's entirely deterministic when the two other endgame content types don't offer that same determinism is what bringing this massive gap. Pvp not offering intermediary rng gear is also part of that problem.This allows players who engage in all content types to essentially super charge their gearing much much earlier, which exponentially accelerates their progression path by a substantial amount compared to players who prefer to "stay in their lane".Should players who engage in all content types be rewards? Probably, but right now it's kind of out of whack. A high end pvp only players currently would be 15 ilvls behind his peers who also engage in m+ and mythic raiding, and vice versa. That is too large of a gap, and it's a gap that'd take months to close as well.Similarly, +15 right now is not easy content either. Timing a +15 key right now arguably is harder than the first 4-5 mythic raid bosses. It is substantially harder than heroic raiding, so it makes little sense why the rewards from m+ right now are so terrible. Similarly, loot from m+ really should scale up to +20 level. Legit, the only reason it's so %^&* right now is that they're infinitely farmable (but not realistic) and to stiffle heroic loot trading. If anything, they should just push conquest through to a global currency for all content types (like valor points of the past), and have it be a shared weekly cap, with similar upgrading scheme in place for both raiders and m+ (can only upgrade to the tiers they've met seasonal prerequisites for). While at the same time reintroduce end-of-match drops for pvp.
Well... as a huge fan of M+ i am disappointed - i am 204ilvl right now but i am playing since launch.... only two good pieces i have are both coming from The Great Vault. I dont do PvP or Raiding, i love spending my time doing ladders on M+ (i am 1350rio with that ilvl and i still refuse to play PVP/Raiding). This week i did 13 high keys with my bois and ended with only 3 item drops, and two of them was higher ilvl but with useless secondary stats so i literally disenchanted them.13 runs with 3 drops is kinda ridiculous, why Blizzard don't want M+ to be a thing in this game anymore? M+ was rewarding, and they even created MDI to make it more interesting and provide some focus on this part of the game. Now it is the worst way to get gear in this game, PVP gear is way higher, HEROIC! gear is better, not even talking about Mythic Raid gear - i am 204ilvl and best thing i can get from pushing really high keys is 210 (if they drops because drop chances are such a damn bad joke)Now i am forced to do something else than M+ which I loved from Legion and barely touched any other activity in game since it launched. Aaaaaaaaaaaaand i don't like it.