This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
The thing is, how do you expect players to get experience? If they are good, but new, players, shouldn't they have a right to run ICC as well? Do you know how hard it is to PuG any other raid besides ICC and the occasional ToC? And before you say "Go with guild," what if the guild is already running ICC multiple times a week and doesn't have time for other dungeons?
I used to agree that the emblems from Heroics was nonsense and that it SHOULD be like it was in older versions:* Run heroics to gear up for raiding (Naxx, OS, EoE)* Run Naxx/OS/EoE to get better gear and higher emblems* Run Ulduar to get better gear and higher emblems* Run ToC to get better gear and higher emblems* Run ICC for the endgame (and better gear)But the problem with this approach is nobody does the earlier raids, barring the weekly or some achievements. IF the old system was in place, people STILL wouldn't run them. Now, I did not play BC (I started a week or two before Patch 3.3) but from what I understand the problem with is it that if you joined a raiding guild that was doing Black Temple or Sunwell, the guild had to suddenly STOP progression to run your ass through Karazhan, or Gruul or Magtheridon (not sure which exactly) so YOU could gear up to the appropriate level and unlock SSC to progress with the rest of the guild. So you had 9 or 24 people who had to stop their current raiding to run stuff they had already done many times before. Wouldn't this be the same problem if we DIDN'T have the current emblem model? A guild that was currently on ICC would NOT stop progression to run a new member through Naxx/Ulduar/ToC just so that new member could be geared for ICC and go with them. All it would do is prevent newbies from ever trying any kind of meaningful progression, since they could only ever get in guilds that were filled with other newbies, since advanced guilds wouldn't want to stop progression to run content they've already been through just for a single new member.Now, I think the badge system has a LOT of flaws, in that it still enables someone with zero raiding experience to do easymode heroics (and semi-difficult heroics i.e. the ICC 5-mans) and then have enough gear for a raid but no experience of what to do in a raid (because 95% of heroics are just mindless facerolling due to the high propensity of geared raiders who just want their 2 Frost emblems), when they SHOULD be learning to raid as they go along so they come out experienced AND geared (as opposed to just geared) but really the more I've thought about it, the old system would just keep new players out of high-end guilds.
I would PREFER the old style so I could see the older raids for more than just achievements. But you just said the problem yourself:
wow so much hate in this thread. I am impressed its only 3 pages long this time though. Also why is people with less skill and or time being able to see raid content bad?Endgame should not just be about the hardcore...otherwise it stops being endgame content and just becomes the end of the game. I far prefer the model they have now with normal and hard mode. Hard mode is for those people people willing to put in the time. Normal mode is for those who aren't or who just want to see the lore and don't care about the item level of there gear as much.As said previously just having gear score/item level isn't enough on its own. So them giving older tiers to people doing older raids or just heroics dungeons isn't that bad. As for welfare epics what is so bad about non raiders getting items with purple text instead of blue? The best players will still have the best/newest gear everyone else will trail behind. To me a lot of it just sounds like "whaaaaaa I had to work really hard for that now you've got it...sure I'm onto new content and getting new stuff but you got it easier than me wwhhhhaaaaa". Play for fun not how hard someone else had to work for something. You'll be happier for it.