Dratnos completely misses a few points. He mentions the issue with someone thinking they were more deserving and suggest personal loot fixes that. But it simply doesn't...PL is just ML with more steps and more punishing for the player. Either make the gear completely untradeable or go ML. Right now if a trinket is bis for one person but it's a 1% upgrade and it's bis for another person with a 7-10% upgrade, and all other things being equal, the first person is absolutely expected to trade it. It's not personal loot at that point, it's ML. AND we're not TAKING gear from a player to give to another. With ML the gear dropped for the raid, the guild distributed those items to the players they thought most deserving. Was it potentially abused? absolutely. Now? It's the same thing except your directly taking items from players inventories. It really sucks. What's worse is when this happens a few times...Combine that with the fact that certain items are only attainable by ONE spec or ONE type and it's even more difficult to get things. Essentially what we do now is we just stack armor/weapon types and maximize the ability to trade stuff. That part he got spot on, the gameplay is much more degenerative. PL didn't solve ANY problems for those that raid in full guild groups and only created more problems. It solved a problem with a heavy hand where the simple solution is obvious...Mythic raid ML requires 19 or 20 of 20 people in guild. Issue fixed. Even further other games deal with these issues in far better ways with combinations of ML and PL. The heavy handed approach has done nothing but cause frustration. Removing the ilvl restriction is just going to add more problems to those who already have to use:RCLC to ML the PL items. Like many of hte recent changes their reasoning is bad and the decision is just as awful. Consider this ... we've gotten HORRID decisions since WoD of game devs completely out of touch with the game itself. Camera View Distance, PL Change, GCD Shenanigans, Azerite Trait Swapping, and now Covenant locks. I'm not sure what game these devs are playing but it's definitely not the game the vast majority of people who are active on these social media platforms are...
Keep personal loot for most content types. For Mythic difficulty raid, when in a guild group enable the option for master loot to be selected. Problem solved for everyone.
I literally never had any problems with masterlooter in all my years playing.All I got from playing with PL is a lot of frustration because I can not give my guildies the gear they need.I can see how ML is scary or unwanted for people that play only/mainly for themselves or that are more egoistical, but I play with a full raid of people I like to play with and have no problem giving up any loot that other people need more.It feels to me that people complaining about ML "taking away people's loot" in this threat are the same people they want to be protected from ironically.Also anyone else notice that it is mainly the same guy posting the same hardcore pro PL stuff dozens of times in this threat?Also our guild experienced the same issues like "InsaneMind", without the splits that is. The current system is like ML but extra inconvenient.
Ion said it clearly “the higher up you go the more that bothers you, we understand that feedback, it isnt a surprise to us but across the totality of the game and the broader audience"No idea how to end quotes but it ends here.That is a myth. A better way to phrase it would be: "The better your guild functions as a group of like-minded players, the more this bothers you."Dont speak for us low level raiders, we actually have a functioning guild and loot allocation with PL costs us SO MUCH time compared to ML its horrific.Also you post reads itself at awfully hostile. Please mind your tone.
Pro-ML: I want to be able to help my teammates when it matters the most, therefore helping my own progression too. I should find annoying workarounds.Pro-PL: I don't want to be abused by people who don't consider me as their teammates in the first place. Why am I still in this guild again?Removing ML from the game is like banning marriage because there are domestic abuse cases.
For my guild we were using epgp with master loot. Never got any major issues with it.We awarder ep for being on time, bonus for progress (reserve also), etc.Now? Some people are late, don't show on progress (yay for xanesh mythic), etc.Removing them from raid is hardly an option (not many want to do mythic at this time of expansion)Not happy how it ended.
Personally i hate having to use master loot in guild runs. when it was amster looter only if the raid was 80% guild was ideal imo. I understand having PL for pugs, but guilds should have the choice.
Removed
In my opinion, if 80%+ of the group is from the same guild, let us use ML. And yeah, remove the "same ilvl equipped" restriction before trading.
I don't think the whole game audience should suffer the constant conflicts of "but this piece is bis for me give it give it" just so the top 100 can more easily split farm heroics the first week of the raid tier. They chose to be hardcore about it and there's already a way of ensuring alts don't get untradable gear in those runs, let them play their own game.
Come on Bli² just bring back ML for Mythic Guild Run since huge part of THIS community is PRO-ML, and let HM and NM in PL since only tryharders min max loot in those difficulties and tryharders are 1) able to trade almost every HM gear week 2.2) already managed to bypass PL with moar splitsThere is a difference between balancing the game around the casual part of the community, and voluntarily screwing the tryhard part of the community. And most of the time it's not just tryhard part of the commu.
Some toxic guilds still use the toxic addon that forces to trade tradeable items. I think that blizzard should remove tradeability status from addon scope.
My single clearest memory from Legion is running a bunch of M+ with my guild to help a freshly leveled warrior get geared up. We had no luck with drops that day until the very end... he still didn't get something, but my paladin got a great pair of shoulders. We were all glad he finally got something. Until I noticed the shoulders had titanforged to be 5 ilvls higher than what I was already wearing, and thus were untradeable. That is what Personal Loot is to me: a system that prevents me from helping out friends, guild mates, and allies because the game forces me to be a selfish !@#$%^&. I'm forced to keep things for myself whether I want to or not. And as far as I'm concerned, anyone who defends the current system for any reason is explicitly saying that I should be happy about being a selfish %^&*!@#, and that I shouldn't want to help my friends out in the first place. I don't necessarily think we need ML back. PL is great in random pugs, and I don't miss the old Need/Greed arguments. But I should be able to give loot to someone else in the party if I want to, and so long as I cannot, I will consider the system to be an explicit statement from Blizzard that players should not care about anyone but themselves, should not care about helping each other out, and that the only mentality they approve of is the selfish @#$%^&* who screws over everyone else for their own benefit.