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评论来自
422867
The tooltip says "for your next 4 weapon swings" which sounds a little ambiguous to me like many of blizzard's tooltips.
Was just wondering if this meant for the next 4 melee attacks including abilities like hammer of the righteous and judgement or if it just means for auto attacks?
Can anyone clear this up for me?
Thanks
评论来自
422867
Just tested and here are the results (please note that these have been edited to show only the relevant information and has been split so it's easier to read). You can skip this and look at the conclusion at the end if you are not interested in reading the evidence.
Combat Log:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Theshinyguy gains Theshinyguy's Reckoning.
Theshinyguy's gains 1 extra attacks through Reckoning.
Theshinyguy's melee swing hits Cabal Spell-weaver for 183 Physical.
Theshinyguy's melee swing hits Cabal Spell-weaver for 182 Physical.
Theshinyguy's Seal of Justice is refreshed on Cabal Spell-weaver.
Theshinyguy's Seal of Justice hits Cabal Spell-weaver for 20 Holy.
Theshinyguy's Seal of Justice is refreshed on Cabal Spell-weaver.
Theshinyguy's Seal of Justice hits Cabal Spell-weaver for 29 Holy. (Critical)
...
Theshinyguy's Judgement hits Cabal Spell-weaver for 475 Holy.
...
Theshinyguy's Hammer of the Righteous hits Cabal Spell-weaver for 64 Physical.
Theshinyguy's Hammer of the Righteous hits Cabal Spell-weaver for 707 Holy.
...
Theshinyguy's gains 1 extra attacks through Reckoning.
Theshinyguy's melee swing hits Cabal Spell-weaver for 417 Physical. (Critical)
Theshinyguy's melee swing hits Cabal Spell-weaver for 165 Physical.
Theshinyguy's Seal of Justice is refreshed on Cabal Spell-weaver.
Theshinyguy's Seal of Justice hits Cabal Spell-weaver for 20 Holy.
Theshinyguy's Seal of Justice is refreshed on Cabal Spell-weaver.
Theshinyguy's Seal of Justice hits Cabal Spell-weaver for 19 Holy.
Theshinyguy's Reckoning fades from Theshinyguy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So in conclusion:
- Reckoning
only
effects auto-attacks
- Reckoning causes 2 applications of any seal you have active assuming both attacks hit
- Reckoning
does not
effect Judgement, Hammer of the Righteous or any other melee attack.
As Reckoning is only a
chance on block
and
only
effects auto-attacks, it is fairly useless in my opinion, unless maybe you use it to apply multiple charges of Seal of Truth but even then there are probably better talents at the moment.
Also please note that this is only my opinion backed up by my collected data.
Hope this helps some people out =]
评论来自
coniferous
The idea is really interesting and the proc is pretty cool, That being said %20 on block is really low chance.
While your leveling you usually have around %5 chance to bock.
0.05 * 0.20 = 0.01. Thats a one percent chance on hit to proc reckoning.
Lets imagine that you have a decent amount of block rating. enough for %15 chance to block lets say.
0.15 * 0.20 = 0.03. Thats still only a three percent chance to proc this.
Its super hard to theory-craft this because it depends on the opponents attack speed, but lets assume that the enemy attacks once a second and so do you. Thats pretty quick.
Over a 5 minute period of time thats 300 attacks done by both you and the opponent.
If you have %5 block rate:
300 attacks on you:
300 * 0.01 = 3
Reckoning Procs 3 times.
3 * 4 = 12
Thats an additional 12 weapon swings. That's crazy low. Even then it assumes that none of the reckoning procs overlap each other.
If you have a 15% chance to block it goes up to an additional 36 weapon swings. I'm not impressed.
DISCLAIMER: All these calculations are for 1:1 combat! Reckoning will proc much more often if quite a few enemies are attacking you! That being said, the DPS improvements provided by reckoning can only be applied to one enemy at a time, making me question it's usefulness.
评论来自
CrackaBob
assuming my math is right (and let's hope it isn't) with the slow tanking weapons in cata, there is no way to use all four charges of reckoning unless we have 50% haste
hopefully blizzard will fix this and make it proc off of at least crusader strike and/or judgement
EDIT: I was thinking that tank weapons will be 3.0 speed (idk why lol) but they are actually 2.6 speed lowering the haste we need to get all four charges to only 30% haste which is easily obtainable with
Judgements of the Pure
,
Improved Icy Talons
, and 11% haste through gems/enchants/reforging... Is it worth it for that fourth charge? probably not, but this shows that it is at least possible without bloodlust/heroism
EDIT (again): as pointed out below, Reckoning can proc DURING a weapon swing (which I was not accounting for)... with the available haste with just talents and buffs, this means Reckoning would have to proc no more than .72 secs (2.4 without buffs)
after
a weapon swing
demonstrated below:
numbers in () are the charges as they ge used. This is assuming no additional procs occur. Swings 2-5 are counting the seconds from the proc, not from the first swing
....
0
..........
.72
.....
1.46(1)
.......
3.64(2)
......
5.82(3)
........
8(4)
with buffs
....
0
..........
2.4
.......
.2(1)
.........
2.8(2)
........
5.4(3)
.........
8(4)
without buffs
swing
.....
proc
.....
swing2
.....
swing3
.....
swing4
.....
swing5
评论来自
468757
But let's try some slightly more realistic values, shall we?
Here, I'll do it for you:
1.8 second weapon hitting for 900 on each swing (500 dps)
Gets 4 procs of Reckoning
Total damage = 4 swings + 4 extra swings = 7200 damage (3600 from Reckoning)
2.2 second weapon hitting for 1100 on each swing (500 dps)
Gets 3 procs of Reckoning
Total damage = 3 swings + 3 extra swings = 6600 damage (3300 from Reckoning)
Gandazar, when you criticize and downrate someone for not using a
realistic
scenario, be sure you can actually prove it with a realistic scenario. Allow me to correct your reality:
2.2 second weapon hitting for 1100 on each swing (500dps)
You strike an enemy with your weapon, then 1.2 seconds later, you block his attack and reckoning procs. You then strike the target 1 second, 3.2 seconds, 5.4 seconds, and 7.6 seconds after reckoning procs.
Gets
FOUR
procs of reckoning on a 2.2 second weapon
Total damage = 4 swings + 4 extra swings = 8800 damage (4400 from reckoning).
As seen above, for the same DPS, a weapon with a 1.8s swing timer benefits more from reckoning than a weapon with a 2.2s swing timer.
Well, that statement has just been proven to be absolutely 100% wrong (unless you still think 3600 damage is greater than 4400 damage). But lets not stop there, shall we? Obviously, there will be some situations where a 2.2 second weapon will use all 4 charges of reckoning, and some situations where it will only use 3 charges before reckoning ends. Compared to a 1.8 second weapon, which weapon will usually output the most damage with reckoning?
The shortest amount of time it takes for a 2.2 second weapon to use up 4 charges of reckoning is 6.6 seconds assuming reckoning procs immediately before your 1st swing. This means reckoning has to proc at least 2.2 - (8 - 6.6) = 0.8 seconds after a weapon swing to benefit from 4 charges of reckoning.
Scenario: You swing your 2.2 second weapon, then 0.8 seconds later you block and proc reckoning. Your next 4 weapon swings occur 1.4, 3.6, 5.8, and 8.0 seconds after reckoning procs. All swings are for double damage.
Since reckoning can proc anytime within the 2.2 weapon swing window, on average it will occur ~36% of the time before 0.8 seconds (0.8/2.2). This means on average ~64% of the time a 2.2 weapon will use up all 4 charges of reckoning, which means ~64% of the time reckoning will output more damage with a 2.2 second weapon than a 1.8 second weapon.
Hence, my original comment that Gandazar downrated and mocked is still correct: slower weapons generally output more damage with reckoning than fast weapons.
Gandazar, let me know how that humble pie tastes :-)
评论来自
709459
It's beyond me why all weapons have the same speed now. Maybe the same reason why all totems, librams, etc., are being replaced by generic "relics" (all of which lost their unique effects and now just have some generic stats) and why stats on items are being replaced with generic "mastery". Maybe Blizzard just wants to replace everything with a single number so people don't have to use their brains to figure out what suits their class and their playing style. "Press this button 500x to increase your Big Number. Buy the expansions so you can raise the cap on your Big Number."
This thinking is why your math and examples are distrusted. First of all, the reason this all occurred is because the previous development team and its leader (single-handedly responsible for the downfall of prior MMOs such as Ultima Online) deigned it necessary to clutter gear and loot tables with impossibly difficult and convoluted stat budgets.
If you actually played on a gear level above PvPing in quest blues (this is not an insult, but what I consider the threshold at which the original system's flaws were not wholly apparent), it became painfully apparent that loot tables were bloated with gear that bore at least one redundant stat -- or a stat whose benefits were insufficient for the budget it consumed -- and numerous versions of this specific piece of gear (totems, librams, relics, trinkets, ranged weapons, etc.) that held *one* ultimately useful version for your class and build, with a handful of questionable alternatives.
Blizzard has restructured all of these stats because there is no purpose in having Agility and Stamina leather that is retooled fourfold for Feral Druids and not just Rogue, but every spec of Rogue, just like there is no purpose in the stat budget of mail that seemed devised by some raving madman as a way to confuse every Shaman and Hunter.
The new system allows for more frequent drops for each person by having budgets that are not only germane to different classes and specs, but can be reforged with focused and useful secondary stats (i.e. Mastery for Protection Paladins uniting its primary form of mitigation, instead of a requiring a budget sacrificed to resilience, defense, block value, and block rating). Now, when you see DPS plate, any plate-wearing DPS can use it and reforge it. When you see cloth, there's not 6 classes (3 of them with higher armor proficiencies) raging over who gets it.
Blizzard made our lives vastly easier by shedding truly unnecessary and pointless stat budgets, increasing the chances of getting gear you can actually use, and making your base model of stats clear so that you have greater understanding of how best to balance your stats and customize your gear. What originally demanded huge tables of comparison to arrive at the "ideal range" for stat balance has been neatly reduced to simple line graphs, and in your ignorance, you bite the hand that feeds.
All pen-and-paper calculations are assumed as a "sterile white room" scenario: that is, no random occurrences are included so that, over time, the most accurate portrayal of the scenario is presented (10,000 coin flips will result in better 50/50 odds than 3 do). Damage variance, speed variance, number of hits, these things are not considered because over hours of gameplay they become moot: the power of averages is that they are all that mathematically matters when time is the deciding factor. If you know what the damage will be of Reckoning hitting 4 times and calculate for that, calculating for fewer hits is unnecessary: You will know by calculating the maximum "unrealistic" scenarios.
Midtown's example is mathematically sound because every "realistic" scenario needs to consider an unrealistic plane and then be gradually scaled down so that you can ensure your calculations remain consistent by observing your constants, means, and averages. You don't build the first level of a skyscraper and then say "All the rest of them should be like that!" You design the entire structure and then focus on individual floor plans. Your math is based in assumptions and using calculations that are not true to form, but instead -more- unrealistic than Midtown's because while he has spanned weapon speed from absurd end to absurd end -- which, fascinatingly enough, gives accounting for results of haste -- you attempted to correct him without even using a 2.6 speed weapon example.
All I'm saying is, Midtown gave us a base model to give an organic and minimal idea of what to expect from this talent. Gandazar, however, you have failed to defend your own work against the specifics you've launched at Midtown. If we're going to assume hits could be wasted, then where is your consideration for crit percentage? Results over the course of a raid? Is your expertise high enough? What about your hit? Does block frequency create different results for each speed? What about the impact of stats on the weapon? Maybe you should think twice next time you decide to suddenly hold someone to standards you've already shirked yourself.
(If anyone wants some scenarios with crit, block frequency, and averages, I'd be happy to oblige and run some numbers!)
评论来自
Lifeonmars
The question concerning Reckoning and weapon speed has been known definitely for a very long time, and slower is always better.
Theckd from maintankadin has done extensive, rigorous modeling and his contribution to the below thread is a good starting point for understanding it.
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?f=6&t=30641&rb_v=viewtopic
评论来自
Felfaadaern
I see a lot of posts arguing whether this represents a significant damage increase. What I want to know is, why do tanks care about a slight damage increase at a time when Vengeance makes threat a non-issue? I would rather spend talent points on something to help survivability. If I have points leftover, I rout them to generating some AoE threat, which can sometimes be an issue (backpulls, loose cannon dps). I simply don't need Reckoning to maintain single target threat.
评论来自
817585
the idea that i keep wanting to gravitate twards is that more weapon swings mean more procs from enchants and other chance on hit goodies. but is it worth the talent points to vicariously get more Blade Ward?
评论来自
Silbotronic
To those who are curious: Your weapon leaves a yellow trail when swung when this proc is active.
评论来自
297218
Until level 80 this is fairly useless talent. It procs so rarely (3% chance with 2 points and 1% with one point) that you hardly see any benefit. Only use as filler talent (if you need filler).
评论来自
zeroshens
this is not a good talent to take until you are at level 80 and you can begin to benefit from mastery.
till level 80, your chance to block is at/or slightly higher than 5% (sometimes slightly higher if you can find gear to increase it). this, in addition to a 20% proc rate which only affects auto attacks, means you are hardly ever gonna get any use out of it till you can get mastery.
until level 80 you are better off speccing into improved hammer of justice. a shorter cooldown on a stun offers you more damage mitigation for pve, as well as more opportunities to heal yourself in pvp (potentially 4 flash of lights on yourself or a team mate, or a couple of divine lights).
hallowed ground is another choice, but, for pvp it could be less useful (you cannot guarantee your target will stay on it) in comparison to the shorter stun cooldown.
评论来自
zeroshens
patch 4.3
my chance to block: 51.52%
fought murozond, in the new HoT heroics.
Reckoning only accounted for 1.8% of my total damage done during the boss fight. according to Recount.
Reckoning only accounted for 2.8% of my total damage done for the entire dungeon. according to Recount.
For such little damage increase, lets say from 2-3% increase, i don't think it is worth the 2 points.
评论来自
DawnZtar
Reckoning facts:
- Stacks are not shown, but can be shown with an addon, for example ReckCounter.
- Stacks up to 4 times, meaning your next melee hit will hit 5 times (1st hit + 4 extra).
- Combined with
you will do 5x melee hits + 5x SoR hits, which can do a nice amount of damage if played with spell power.
- Combined with
you will do 5x melee hits + a chance that
ONE
of your melee hits will proc SoC giving you that nice extra burst.
- Back in the day, Reckoning could be charged indefinetly, which was once abused to solo Doom Lord Kazzak (40 man raid boss) in the Blasted Lands. After this, Blizzard hotfixed Reckoning to stack only 4 times.
- If played well, Reckoning is a very fun talent, that may seem overpowered to some extent.
链接
清算
清算
天赋
需要 圣骑士
在你格挡一次攻击之后你有20%的几率在接下来的8 sec内进行的下4次武器攻击都获得一次额外攻击。
(特效触发几率:20%)
魔法增益
法术细节
持续时间
n/a
类型
物理
机制
n/a
驱散类型
n/a
GCD目录
n/a
成本
无
范围
0码
(自身)
施法时间
瞬发
冷却
n/a
GCD
0秒
光环触发几率
20%
效果
Apply Aura:Proc Trigger Spell
PVP 倍率:1
清算
标记
[Is Ability]
被动技能
隐藏光环
隐藏施法时间
[Allow Proc While Sitting]
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