One thing is clear for sure though, Remove PVP Scaling for good. This mechanic is absolute garbage and should not be present in any MMO.
The system that will work in SL, is a system that realizes that PVP’ers and PVE’ers are usually two different people. There’s probably a pretty small percentage of PVE’ers who ever bother to PVP. PVP’ers however have been forced to PVE for a while now. That’s not good for PVP. The two systems should feel separate. The next thing that needs to happen is that emphasis needs to be taken off of arenas. Someone should be able to build a PVP rating based on any PVP play, whether it’s rated arenas, pugged arenas, BG’s or world PVP. The weighting for each would be different, but gating the best gear behind only rated arenas is another huge flaw the system has right now. Bring back PVP stats and make the gear manager relevant again. There should also be some sort of behind the scenes ranking system that maintains a score metric that almost always places you in a pug with other players who are only a few percentage points off your score. This brings skill back into the game and by keeping the rating or scoring hidden it prevents players from intentionally gaming the system to get placed into matches with intentionally lower players. Getting wrecked 25 times by a tank with 3x as many hp as me is generally no fun, but being able to outlast a tank who is on my level feels rewarding.
Didn't like MoP too much as an expansion as a whole but the PvP gearing system was easily the best WoW has had. You didn't have to PvE one bit to PvP and if you wanted to get into PvP as a PvE player you could just buy some crafted PvP pieces and get right into it. Please stop treating PvP as a side-activity for PvE players.
honest question, why cant they just set everyone to some high ilvl when entering PVP, like they do for timewalking.Just make PVP about the skill not the gear, just give everyone in PVP max gear and take all this vendor headache awaywould people still play if there was no gear to grind? I say yes, I would for sure.
What I'd say is needed:A PvP Vendor that offers all 6 stat combinations for every slot OR alternatively a system to craft PvP gear (the latter would actually be a bit more interactive) and then upgrade it with Honor and Conquest. WoD-style item level scalingAn incentive to only use PvP gear regardless of ilvl. It could be trinkets giving a Versatility set bonus, perhaps weapons that have some active ability that only works against players.Conduits are already on PvP vendors, Renown seems exceptionally easy to farm (and I'd argue PvPers should still be expected to play the game). The only issue would be Legendaries. We'll have to wait and see how high the drop rates for legendary recipes are, etc.
i would prefer legion system only if u could customize your stats tbh, some classes *need* a certain amount of haste for example while others prefer masteryfor SL, i personally really really hope they will add some sort of pvp stats to pvp gear and my favorite system for it is wod scalingthat makes mythic raid gear for example, worse in pvp compared to full conquest gear but still not 60 item lvl differenceit also works the other way around, full conquest gear is worse than full mythic gear in a pve scenario but still decentjust please have some sort of pvp gear, i find it really stupid that the best gear for PVP is in PVE, me and many others don't like pve, don't have the time or just prefer to focus on arena/bgs, what's wrong that gear that u acquire from X activity will be the best for that exact activity?
I hope Blizz will make a reasonable decision this time. (Not the regular decision on solving a problem causing tons of other problems.)
TBC pvp gear was the best imo
Removed
Imo mop had the best pvp. Both mechanics and gear wise.I really liked it when mixing in pve trinkets or a legendary was fine. Even though you'd lose out on defense - is some cases you'd see a huge boost in damage.Fullon pve gear to pvp with on the other hand? No.First, you remove the incentive to keep pvping. Second, you remove incentive to buy crafted pvp gear. Third, you remove part of experimentation around pvpve gear combinations. Like, I can only see full pve gear working in a possible oneshot-but-get-oneshotted build, but not as a strategy for serious pvp.Now, I don't think that the WoD scaling system or the systems after were good. Nor do I like any scaling whatsoever. Damage numbers should correspond to health lost, levels should correspond with actual levels - all those discrepancies and literal desync with stats on your screen vs stats on target screen are making me crazy ffs.Also health suddenly jumping up once you hit someone in pvp felt like a clunky bandaid. Looking forward to pvp stats in shadowlands.
Solid article. It misses mentioning rating requirements though. In most of those expacs previous to legion, there was no rating requirements for gear (or minimal ones, only on some slots). That meant that there was effectively no pvp barrier to entry beside time invested in a relatively tame grind.Whether you liked pvp or pve more, you could get into pvp and become strong enough to matter with only a short grind. I see some raiders in the comments complain that it didn't let them join pvp quickly, but it actually did, the grind didn't require spexial skill in bgs or arenas, just playing them a bit (which incentivized participation in those as well).In BFA, on the other hand, not only due you have pve gear being superior to pvp gear, but you also have strict rating requirements on item levels. So a player who needs the items the most to get effective is essentialy handicapped by his more skilled competitors, and will have a very rough, very long practice period to even be able to get effective gear.In pve this works because mobs don't have ego, but in pvp its a flawed system which puts people off from actually competing and developing their skill.The previous systems were both more accessible, faster and fair. A return to mop, wod is paramount, or even a gw2 like system where you can just customize stats and don't need to gear for pvp.
I literally registred to post my thoughts here.I'm multi glad who do some pve too(not that high pve content but like 20x mythic dungeons and some mythic raid bosses). And what can i say that you can't even understand how gears matters now if you don't play arena at least at 2.2-2.4 mmr where all mythic raiders appear. And i'm also sad that blizzard announced that last 2 bosses will give your items 5 or 10 ilvl higher than everything in the game in Shadowlands i mean.What i want to say is that you can't compare difficulty of playing on 2.4k and higher to completing +15 mythic dungeons in time. Let's be honest diffuculty of m+ is a joke and still you get same rewards. People who have never played arenas on decent lvl can't achieve elite titles at least for a month i think or probably longer. But you need like 1 or 2 days to complete your first +15 in time i think, if you don't play pve a lot, may be even less. I mean you can never play at 2.7 for example on your first day or week of playing arenas if you don't get carried by high pvp players, even with gear. So from my point of view rewards for pvp should be way higher. Also nowadays everyone who raid at least 2 days a week have 12/12m and they have better gear for it. But come on let's do higher ilvl rewards for high players in all aspects of game, for example + 23-25 key should give you 485 weekly ilvl, playing at 2700 and higher also should give you same rewards.We need pvp power back or we need changes in pvp rewards.Thanks for reading guys appreciate a lot.
One thing you forgot to mention is in MoP reforging stats was a thing so you could weight your gear to your best stats as well.I really liked the Legion model as it just made getting into bgs very accessible for the people who preferred PvE the most, but it is unfortunate it messed over those who solely did PvP. While I do think there should be some crossover, I don't think a PvP only stat is a healthy option either given the way the game has gone.It really is a tough problem, and an unfortunate one.
Of course there are less players doing pvp in each expansion, if new players or people that just likes to do some bgs and play disorganized content gets pummeled into the ground because everyone is 200K more health than they are and the only way of competing in casual pvp enviroments is to do high rating arena or getting into hc/somewhat high mythic runs or you are going to die and be useless to your team.Its probably the first time i think low level bgs are WAY more balanced that max level thanks to the absolutely disgusting inflated ilvl pve gives.Doing a mythic 10 is the same as 2k arena?Pvp gear needs a pvp only something.
Here’s a question, if pvp gear were to be as it is without a stat (which they don’t want to put in), but the selection+rate were equivalent to pve. Would pvpers still complain about raiders/M+ players coming into the system looking for chase items? Would they still complain that their peers in pvp still went out and did pve for chase items to get an edge?Gearing your character in an mmorpg is a prisoner’s dilemma and an arms race. Once one person get desperate/creative enough to try out something to get a leg up on the competition, that necessitates others to do the same. What I mean is that even with the pvp vendor, I really really really do see duelist and above players still going out and doing pve content for gear (even if selection on vendor were improved). And once that happens what then?